Stainless Tikka .243 exploded at the range today - lots of luck

[Danindetroit]

I have used gun drills to drill water lines in molds, we didn't have a gundrill machine, but you can use, a regular cnc machine that has the travel needed. Rotary forging can be done hot, it is the way artillery barrels are made. I guess I need to see how it is actually done, to understand it better.

Button rifling a thin barrell will bulge it, because the button doesn't actually cut the steel, it irons the rifling in. So if yu want a thin rifle barrel it has to be rifled on a thick blank, and turned, and it may alter the bore, unless you only take off an 1/8"

The methods for thin barrels are cutting the rifling in. Broaching is a one pass method, you can use a multi pass method also.

 

[MeekAndMild]

For at least a year now, all types of steel has been extremely hard to get, and expensive (prices have gone thru the roof).

http://www.lightsearch.com/lightnow/design_china.htm

 

[LAK]

IIRC in the rotary forging process pioneered by Steyr the steel is forged around a mandrel that has the correct bore with rifling profile already on it.

On the seams theory in this case, it is interesting as the barrel seems to have split almost symetrically into three sections. I would have thought that a single seam in a forged bar or rod would have caused it to split in two.

Further, the surfaces in the breaks only show tearing in a few spots; the rest having the character of cold chocolate that has snapped albeit in an uneven fashion.

 

[Danindetroit]

I guess what do you think?, because the other pic shows a very different type of crack that you describe. I have seen a couple guns that had muzzles, that looked like a peeled banana, a long time ago, at a gun show. Not recently though.

I am more interested in this phenomenon, because I am considering a gun purchase, I have the choice of stainless, and blued 4130? barrels. I want to know if it is more likely to happen is stainless steel. Tikka is not one of the guns in the running, but I always thought a company can easily smile, and be nice when selling something, and nothing goes wrong, it is when you have a problem, that a company either shines, or hits rock bottom. Is there being any info, on reasons, released, or #'s of actual problems? It is the reason that I would drive an hour or more to cabela's, if you had a receipt, with a purchase date within 60? days, they just replaced the item, or trade for a different one, of same price, no questions asked, they even adjusted scopes, for free. No grumbling, no ask my manager, just did it, with a smile.

 

[LAK]

Danindetroit,

Bear in mind that my observations are that of a lay person; while I have a pretty good grasp of the basic mechanics, I am not a metallurgist. And I am as interested to hear the last word on this one as you are. As far as my opinions on purchasing any stainless rifles at this time - see my earlier post.

 

[Danindetroit]

It looks like all we have is lay people, and not metallurgists, so your opinion is a valid as anyone, until somebody posts, a sheepskin, with a materials engineering degree, and has specialized in metals, for a while. I say this because my father-in-law, build industrial oven, and has to build them to have the oven expand, that means the conveyer system, and sheetmetal, they just use sloted holes with loose fitting bolts. An engineer was specing out an oven and talked about having to do calculus equations, all afternoon, to find the stretch. My father in law said from 70 to 500 degress, the steel we use will stretch about an inch(2" total) every 10' feet of oven. It is not that hard to put in an extra inch of play, in 10 feet. The moral, I'll take 30 years experience, and some book learning, over no experience and a fancy degree. My father-inlaw does have an associates, in a manfacturing disicpline, or pre-engineering from ferris state. The lack of classes in metallurgy, is rather frightening, considering how important it is. I guess paying the money to take a class at a 4 year school, in the future will be necessary.

I was also, able to go online, and find a very good free engineering software, that calculated loads of beams supported in various ways, and almost any other basic engineering problem, including material growth, due to heat.

Just found a website that has some neat looking online tools. It is at the bottom of the page.

http://www.engineering.com/content/index.jsp?disciplineID=mechanical

 

[mete]

I am a metallurgist and have been to gunsmithing school. I have tried to explain metallurgical aspects of this case on www.accuratereloading.com. Without actually seeing the guns and doing a proper metallurgical examination my experience in failure analysis still leaves it to conjecture. .....Formal education and experience are necessary.

 

[Danindetroit]

I am assuming now that you mean the posts, in the forums, it would be pretty hard to find with the link you provided. I guess I don't understand why you didn't just link the post.

 

[dfaugh]

Been following threads about this

on a variety of gun boards. As near as I can tell, all of the failures were fluted barrels, and the fractures occurred along the flutes...Which makes sense, as this would be the thinnest part of the barrel. My knowledge of metallurgy is rudimentary, at best, comes from years ago when I built race cars and did alot of "fancy" fabrication and welding. We experimented alot, and any failures similar to what's seen here was result of material (whatever it was, steel, aluminum, stainless) being too brittle for the loads imparted on it. You could have a piece that was strong enough for loads of a certain kind(compression for example), but would fracture when a different type of load (torsion for example) was applied to it. Will be interested to find out what the "final analysis" of this brings to light.

 

[scaramanga69]

Hi guys
I posted to this thread last week regarding my experience so far with this unforunate saga, I too own one of the sako 75's that fall within the designated serial numbers, after phoning them last week and getting a word of mouth assurance from them that mine was not affected by the recall I have since been in contact Berretta (UK) again regarding my rifle, this is basically after reading more and more of these posts that started to worry me a bit more, they have aggreed to give me written confirmation that mine is not one of them, they have absoloutely guarranteed me that none of the faulty rifles were sold by them, all of these were traced and sent back to the factory for analysis.
Of course I am in the UK so the situation could be entrirely different to elswhere, Im sure Berretta UK does not import or sell any thing like the amount of rifles that they would to the US, so maybe this has made it easier for them to track the affected batch, any how I have decided to hell with it I am going to shoot the gun as it is a real tack driver the most accurate rifle I have ever owned (.222 rem) .
Maybe you think I am crazy but I really think If there was any chance of this rifle being one of them I would have been contacted by now, any how I have put nearly 250 rounds through it, so I would have thought if there was anything wrong it would have reared its head by now.

 

[MeekAndMild]

mete, a gunsmithing question: If there is a flaw in a rifle, is it possible that the proof load they shoot at the factory could overstress it so that it would later explode with a normal load?

 

[mete]

The proof test is to test for gross flaws.If the proof tests starts a crack because of a flaw standard loads will do it to though it will take a few rounds to do it .Considering that the guns in question failed within about two boxes of ammo , they would have failed with or without the proof load.

 

[Dean Speir]

.

As Groucho said in A Night at the Opera, the jig is up…

Finnish gun manufacturer recalls faulty hunting weapons

…in Finland, at least.

.

 

[PsychoSword]

Whoa, this thread is still going! I was in doing a transfer yesterday and spoke to the gunshop owner. We couldn't get ahold of the guy, but if he has the pictures, I will post them here, hopefully within a few days now.

I also confirmed through the gunshop owner that his gun was not on the recall list.

Are they talking about Fire Capt in the article? He's from Washington.

 

[FirstFreedom]

Thanks Dean. I believe the recall of the 2,700 suspect guns is *worldwide*. It's just issued from Finland, where the manuf. is located. Tell your friends, boys, if they have a Tikka.

[See, I *told* you guys that WSMs are more dangerous because of less metal thickness between the cartridge case and the outer surface...JK, I don't think that matters. ]

 

[mete]

"All consumers have been contacted a long time ago " Well Dean , they still seem to be in denial...The company admits to 6 blow ups. The fellow in the article is the fire fighter from washington.

 

[Nuts590]

All buyers have been notified, and most of the guns have been returned to the factory for repairs or replacement, except for a few in the United States.

That doesn't exactly make me sleep better at night...

 

[Dean Speir]

This was just received in an NSSF E-mail…

A limited number of recently delivered Sako and Tikka stainless steel rifles have been recalled due to a problem discovered in the steel used in the barrels. The lowest serial number affected by this recall is 419140 and the highest serial number affected is 461951; however, only a small percentage of rifles within this range of numbers is being recalled. In addition, no rifle shipped before February 2004 is involved in the recall. Because only a limited number of recently shipped rifles are involved in the recall, customers being asked to return their rifle are being contacted directly. Although the recall is nearly complete (99% of rifles affected by the recall in the U.S. have already been returned or are in the process of being returned), if you have a stainless steel Sako or Tikka rifle within the serial number range listed above, received by you after February 28, 2004, and you want to check and determine whether it is being recalled, please call 1-800-503-8869. If you have received a written or telephonic recall notice, please follow the instructions for returning the recalled product contained in that notice.

At least two of those with whom I've been in contact who have experienced the catastrophic failures, one here and one in Finland, have "lawyered up."

We shall see what we shall see.

.

 

[FirstFreedom]

Well, the two that have lawyers, how badly were they injured, if at all? If they weren't, then they're wasting their time - they ain't gonna get compensated for a bad range day unless physical injury is first established.

 

[Master Blaster]

42,000 rifles affected, and they have not been real forthcomming about issueing the recall when they have known about the problem for months. I'm sorry I could never consider one of their rifles ever.

As far as the lawyers go, these folks at Tikka, Sako, Berretta, need to be sued for a bundle of money for their neglegence, and foot dragging on recalling these rifles. Rifles aint like a toaster, you know where each and every one went, especially in the USA.