jetinteriorguy
New member
According to Wikipedia FN produced over 1.5 million. Not counting licensed producers in other countries and outright copies. I wouldn’t say nobody bought them.
Springfield SA-35 (Kinda looks like a High-power)
- Thread starter Rob228
- Start date
Thanks for educating me. I didn't realize that S&W, Ruger, CZ, Kimber, Remington (rip), Sig Sauer, Beretta, FN, etc. were all making money selling High Powers.
Catchabullet
New member
Especially since OP didn't ask for opinions and was just stating that SA is producing them. I understand your distaste for the gun dude, I don't like Glocks. But you never see me vehemently going after said owners/enthusiasts speaking about they've blown up in trials and blah blah.
Chiilllll.
We all like firearms here, friendly fire with the negativity
Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk
jetinteriorguy
New member
Very diplomatic way to put it.
G&A review of a pre-production gun said it had a forged frame & slide, hammer forged bb. and no MIM parts ... this is the 2nd very positive review I've seen in the last two days. The other was by the American Rifleman staff.
I like the sights, reported trigger weights, and especially the safety on this new offering from Springfield. I have two Hi Powers and experience with several others of FN make including a year in Vietnam with one. The above improvements would have been very welcome in the jungle.
Best Regards. Rod
I like the sights, reported trigger weights, and especially the safety on this new offering from Springfield. I have two Hi Powers and experience with several others of FN make including a year in Vietnam with one. The above improvements would have been very welcome in the jungle.
Best Regards. Rod
BHP is one of the most produced pistols, if not "the most produced" in the world. And I consider FN's 1.5M being too far from a global total figure, considering the fact that only Argentina made more than 300k under license. Some sources say that 10M and I suppose it could be a more realistic number. I cannot confirm that but I suppose it could be true.
In the other hand, I can give you the name of more than 50 countries that adopted it, and the vast majority used it in actual combat.
No one pistol other than the HP could claim such honor, even the glorious 1911 and its derivatives are well behind it.
In the other hand, I can give you the name of more than 50 countries that adopted it, and the vast majority used it in actual combat.
No one pistol other than the HP could claim such honor, even the glorious 1911 and its derivatives are well behind it.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"The High Power has been a screwup for 80 fricking years. The design never evolved. Everybody who ever shot a nice 1911 wondered why manufacturers still made the same crappy High Power.
I don't care that moron militaries used the pistol. Ever wonder why nobody bought FN/Browning High Powers? Because they were very pretty, very expensive, garbage. So the design died. Whereas the 1911, which evolved, is alive and well.
The last High Power I had experience with was 1979. I was unimpressed then, and I've owned plenty of better firearms since.
Now I'm still not interested in another high bore axis pistol, but if I had the itch for an evolved High Power the SA-35 is it. "
So... no true functional experience with them. Check.
Which makes me wonder exactly how, and why, you so heartily endorse the SA, then.
"Ever wonder why nobody bought FN/Browning High Powers?"
You're joking, right?
Adopted by 50+ nations as a primary or secondary military handgun.
Solid, successful sales on the commercial market in Europe, Asia, and the United States for over 50 years.
Perhaps the true reason why the Hi Power didn't evolve (and yes, it did) is because it didn't really need to evolve.
I don't care that moron militaries used the pistol. Ever wonder why nobody bought FN/Browning High Powers? Because they were very pretty, very expensive, garbage. So the design died. Whereas the 1911, which evolved, is alive and well.
The last High Power I had experience with was 1979. I was unimpressed then, and I've owned plenty of better firearms since.
Now I'm still not interested in another high bore axis pistol, but if I had the itch for an evolved High Power the SA-35 is it. "
So... no true functional experience with them. Check.
Which makes me wonder exactly how, and why, you so heartily endorse the SA, then.
"Ever wonder why nobody bought FN/Browning High Powers?"
You're joking, right?
Adopted by 50+ nations as a primary or secondary military handgun.
Solid, successful sales on the commercial market in Europe, Asia, and the United States for over 50 years.
Perhaps the true reason why the Hi Power didn't evolve (and yes, it did) is because it didn't really need to evolve.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"If the High Power was so good, why did nobody buy it? I doubt there's much difference in manufacturing cost between a 1911 and a High Power."
What kind of ludicrous, no basis in reality statement is that?
Nothing says corporate stewardship like manufacturing tens of thousands of production units for commercial sale every year, for over 50 years, only to rack them up in a massive warehouse because no one is buying them, right?
That's a sure avenue to corporate success and PROFIT!
"So the design died. Whereas the 1911, which evolved, is alive and well. "
So, we're talking about Springfield Armory bringing out their version of the Hi Power.
And yet, you claim that the Hi Power is the worst, least successful handgun of all time.
How do you explain SA bringing it back to life, then?
Maybe a move to drive the company into bankruptcy as a tax dodge?
An alien brain slug infestation at the corporate level causing bad decision making processes?
I'm not sure you're actually reading what you're writing, so stop. Just stop. You're embarrassing yourself.
What kind of ludicrous, no basis in reality statement is that?
Nothing says corporate stewardship like manufacturing tens of thousands of production units for commercial sale every year, for over 50 years, only to rack them up in a massive warehouse because no one is buying them, right?
That's a sure avenue to corporate success and PROFIT!
"So the design died. Whereas the 1911, which evolved, is alive and well. "
So, we're talking about Springfield Armory bringing out their version of the Hi Power.
And yet, you claim that the Hi Power is the worst, least successful handgun of all time.
How do you explain SA bringing it back to life, then?
Maybe a move to drive the company into bankruptcy as a tax dodge?
An alien brain slug infestation at the corporate level causing bad decision making processes?
I'm not sure you're actually reading what you're writing, so stop. Just stop. You're embarrassing yourself.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"Thanks for educating me. I didn't realize that S&W, Ruger, CZ, Kimber, Remington (rip), Sig Sauer, Beretta, FN, etc. were all making money selling High Powers."
So....
FN made over 1.5 million of them, both for military and commercial consumption.
And yet, other companies having the temerity, the audacity, the absolute gall to bring out their own designs somehow makes the Hi Power design, terrible.
Gotcha.
So, the Winchester Model 12, the Remington Model 700, etc., were all terrible, terrible failures because Savage didn't make a Model 12, H&R didn't make a Model 700.....
I will admit. Your logic is quite... amusing.
So....
FN made over 1.5 million of them, both for military and commercial consumption.
And yet, other companies having the temerity, the audacity, the absolute gall to bring out their own designs somehow makes the Hi Power design, terrible.
Gotcha.
So, the Winchester Model 12, the Remington Model 700, etc., were all terrible, terrible failures because Savage didn't make a Model 12, H&R didn't make a Model 700.....
I will admit. Your logic is quite... amusing.
wild cat mccane
New member
I personally argued 8 pages in a thread on why 10mm sucks and I'm not sure it ever got this silly.
I'm in the camp of the Tanfoglio Stock 1, 2, 3 being better options on paper. But...that's okay that others want it.
Meh.
I'm in the camp of the Tanfoglio Stock 1, 2, 3 being better options on paper. But...that's okay that others want it.
Meh.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"I personally argued 8 pages in a thread on why 10mm sucks and I'm not sure it ever got this silly."
Yeah, you were wrong then, and you're still wrong now.
Yeah, you were wrong then, and you're still wrong now.
Very heartening troll tolerance?
As very recent permanent involuntary exile from the Cast Boolits forum, and a brand new member here, I vacillate between incredulity and admiration for the troll tolerance on display here.
All I did was love cats and admire President Trump. I didn’t come close to denigrating arguably the greatest automatic pistol design of all time.
(Crawling back in my spider hole. Nothing to see here.)
As very recent permanent involuntary exile from the Cast Boolits forum, and a brand new member here, I vacillate between incredulity and admiration for the troll tolerance on display here.
All I did was love cats and admire President Trump. I didn’t come close to denigrating arguably the greatest automatic pistol design of all time.
(Crawling back in my spider hole. Nothing to see here.)
Mike Irwin
Staff
Hum...
I wonder if SA could be convinced to make a batch in .30 Luger?
That would get me very interested...
I wonder if SA could be convinced to make a batch in .30 Luger?
That would get me very interested...
Mike Irwin
Staff
Big online gunshops like J&G and Buds have (had) SA-35s...
And were as much as DOUBLING the MSRP.
Just because they had them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9Bz5ZYqF5M
And were as much as DOUBLING the MSRP.
Just because they had them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9Bz5ZYqF5M
A couple of points about the Browning Hi Power regarding its world wide popularity and its name.
First point, one of the reasons so many nations adopted the Hi Power as their service (and sometimes police arm) is because FN marketed the guns world wide, and would not just sell, but actively sought sales any and everywhere that wasn't a Soviet client state.
In this regard it was very similar to the Mauser rifles, that armed nearly every nation on Earth that didn't have a their own arms industry. All those nations bought Mausers, not SMLE's or US Krags or Springfields, because Mauser actively marketed their rifles world wide, while Great Britain and the US concentrated on arming their colonial empire (Britian) or like the US, just meeting domestic demands
Colt would sell to anyone with the money and sold licenses to make the 1911/A1 design but never marketed to the world like FN did. SO, besides being a good gun, that's one big reason why the Hi Power armed so many nations, it was MARKETING.
Next point is about the name. THe "Browning Hi Power" or the P.35, created and sold by FN (originally) is NOT (entirely) a Browning design. JM Browning began the design, created a prototype pistol, and then passed away. The design was completed (and noticably modified) by FN engineers, NOT JM Browning. (the primary FN engineer responsible has a name I have to look up or I will horribly mangle it, and I don't feel like looking it up right now, but you can find it easily enough)
Something I can remember reading (many years pre-internet) though I can no longer recall exactly where, was that FN always admitted that the Browning Hi Power wasn't designed by Browning but was named Browning in his memory.
Also have always heard that the FN engineers put in the magazine disconnect at the request of the French, who then didn't buy any when the gun got to the market. Can't say its true, and I won't say its not, but...there's been talk!
I had a commercial Hi Power in the early 80s (almost certainly a 70s production gun) really nice gun, with the original style safety. and adjustable sights. Trigger pull was horrid (three men and a boy needed to pull the trigger) and I hated the magazine disconnect (which I refuse to call a safety) but other than that, it was a great pistol, felt really good in the hand and shot "forever" before it ran dry.
13 rnd mags are no big deal today, but back then, when 7 or 8 rnds ruled the day the Hi Power just seemed to go on and on. Which bring up another point often forgotten today about the name. It was the Hi Power, NOT because of the power of the 9mm round but because of its capacity, compared to its contemporaries. Hi Power stood for high FIREPOWER (capacity).
AT a $699 price I find the new gun interesting. NO way am I going to pay more just to get one NOW.
Nor did I pay $450 to get a S&W M 29 when the MSRP was $283.50 like a friend of mine did. He had the money and was happy to spend it to get one NOW, rather than wait the 2 years the factory was backlogged at the time (1976).
You want an SA-35 now? Pay the going rate the people who have them are asking. I'm content to wait until that bubble bursts. And, it will. According to a friend of mine, who worked there part time, our Local shop had 5, sold them all at MSRP, has ordered (at least) half a dozen more and the head guy promises to sell them for the same price. Their guy who handles their internet sales is upset at the money they're "going to lose" but its not his call. I kind of like that. That shop will get my business, when I have business to give them.
First point, one of the reasons so many nations adopted the Hi Power as their service (and sometimes police arm) is because FN marketed the guns world wide, and would not just sell, but actively sought sales any and everywhere that wasn't a Soviet client state.
In this regard it was very similar to the Mauser rifles, that armed nearly every nation on Earth that didn't have a their own arms industry. All those nations bought Mausers, not SMLE's or US Krags or Springfields, because Mauser actively marketed their rifles world wide, while Great Britain and the US concentrated on arming their colonial empire (Britian) or like the US, just meeting domestic demands
Colt would sell to anyone with the money and sold licenses to make the 1911/A1 design but never marketed to the world like FN did. SO, besides being a good gun, that's one big reason why the Hi Power armed so many nations, it was MARKETING.
Next point is about the name. THe "Browning Hi Power" or the P.35, created and sold by FN (originally) is NOT (entirely) a Browning design. JM Browning began the design, created a prototype pistol, and then passed away. The design was completed (and noticably modified) by FN engineers, NOT JM Browning. (the primary FN engineer responsible has a name I have to look up or I will horribly mangle it, and I don't feel like looking it up right now, but you can find it easily enough)
Something I can remember reading (many years pre-internet) though I can no longer recall exactly where, was that FN always admitted that the Browning Hi Power wasn't designed by Browning but was named Browning in his memory.
Also have always heard that the FN engineers put in the magazine disconnect at the request of the French, who then didn't buy any when the gun got to the market. Can't say its true, and I won't say its not, but...there's been talk!
I had a commercial Hi Power in the early 80s (almost certainly a 70s production gun) really nice gun, with the original style safety. and adjustable sights. Trigger pull was horrid (three men and a boy needed to pull the trigger) and I hated the magazine disconnect (which I refuse to call a safety) but other than that, it was a great pistol, felt really good in the hand and shot "forever" before it ran dry.
13 rnd mags are no big deal today, but back then, when 7 or 8 rnds ruled the day the Hi Power just seemed to go on and on. Which bring up another point often forgotten today about the name. It was the Hi Power, NOT because of the power of the 9mm round but because of its capacity, compared to its contemporaries. Hi Power stood for high FIREPOWER (capacity).
AT a $699 price I find the new gun interesting. NO way am I going to pay more just to get one NOW.
Nor did I pay $450 to get a S&W M 29 when the MSRP was $283.50 like a friend of mine did. He had the money and was happy to spend it to get one NOW, rather than wait the 2 years the factory was backlogged at the time (1976).
You want an SA-35 now? Pay the going rate the people who have them are asking. I'm content to wait until that bubble bursts. And, it will. According to a friend of mine, who worked there part time, our Local shop had 5, sold them all at MSRP, has ordered (at least) half a dozen more and the head guy promises to sell them for the same price. Their guy who handles their internet sales is upset at the money they're "going to lose" but its not his call. I kind of like that. That shop will get my business, when I have business to give them.
Got one
Well, we got our first SA35 in this morning. Its going home with me. $659 retail. I paid less with my emply discount. Only has 1 mag with it, but a call to Wilson combat has 3 more of the 15 rounders on the way.
Fit and finish are good. The trigger is ok..not great but a trigger job will make it everything i need from a defensive pistol.
Once I get it vetted for function, it will be my winter EDC pistol. I have been carrying a S&W M&P 2.0 compact. But this is just so much sexier!!!
Well, we got our first SA35 in this morning. Its going home with me. $659 retail. I paid less with my emply discount. Only has 1 mag with it, but a call to Wilson combat has 3 more of the 15 rounders on the way.
Fit and finish are good. The trigger is ok..not great but a trigger job will make it everything i need from a defensive pistol.
Once I get it vetted for function, it will be my winter EDC pistol. I have been carrying a S&W M&P 2.0 compact. But this is just so much sexier!!!