springfield armory 1911 a1 construction?

[bobn]

lots of talk of mim parts, cast vs forged, imported/domestic parts etc. i cannot help but wonder where my particular gun fits in the scheme of things. it is approximately 6 or 7 years old, perhaps the serial number is some indication besides. is there a link showing timelines of constuction methods/variations? btw, the night sights just went dead lol. bobn

 

[Alnamvet]

Not to worry

a Springfield of several years ago beats the caca out of any Colt manufactured at that time...forged slides, frame, barrel, and fit and finish that gave Colt's fits...most used brand for customization by the big names back then.

 

[sholling]

The 80s and much of the 90s were not a good time for Colt products. Like Alnamvet said the Springfield was the platform of choice for most of the custom builders.

 

[Rob96]

Sprigfield is a quality piece.

 

[abarth]

Bobn, give Springfield a call, they will tell you the history about your pistol based on your serial number. Their pistol is warranty for life. I think thats mean the night sights too. Call them and see if they will replace the sights for free.

 

[AK103K]

I beg to differ on the Springfield to Colt comparisons. I've owned Colts of all generations, and every one of them was of better quality than any of the Springifields I've owned, and I've owned a number of them too.

The early Springfields were the closest to Colt/GI specs, but as things moved on, they wandered all over, and usually were not anywhere close, especially in the frame dimensions.

The top two in this pic are Springfield "GI's", the bottom, a Series 70 Colt. If you look closely, you can see the differences in the frames, and that the Springfields differ from the Colt, and they also differ from each other. The feel of the grip is the most noticeable to me, with the Springfields being longer. If you look at the Colt, you can see the grip panels meet the radius on the front of the frame. The Springfields have a "flat" area on the frame, forward of the grip panel, and often of varying sizes between guns. The other more noticeable feature are the dust covers. The Springfields have a "blocky" cover, that also has varying dimensions between same model guns, and even the same serial number range, in their line. The Colts have a smooth, radiused frame. These differences are enough to make holsters fit differently, and the blockier Springfields tend to tear the holster up too.

These are the two Springfield "GI's" in the above pic. You can clearly see the differences between the frames. These guns were in the same serial number range

Unless things have GREATLY improved in the last few years, Springfield's QC has been very hit or miss. Of the last 5 Springfield's I bought, four needed attention to work properly. The worst was a Loaded model. It would not reliably feed hardball out of the box. The two GI guns above both had parts of their serial numbers "carved" into the underside of the slide where the disconnector rides, making it feel like the gun was full of sand as the slide was worked back and forth. It took a good bit of work with a stone to smooth things out. They too had function issues.

Later Colts were not perfect either, but fit and function were never an issue. Mine all worked 100% out of the box, and still had great triggers, regardless of series, but things like plastic triggers and MSH's bugged the hell out of me.

 

[bobn]

thanks abarth for advise....ak103> i agree early sprindfields did not impress me much. not so much with the frame stuff though. the only colt i had to compare with was a delta elite. the thing that dissapointed me most with early with springfields was the total lack of accuaracy. i had a accuarate kimber in the late eighties, should have kept it.
,,,,the springfield i have now is a end of ninnties/y2k gun, lol. with a decent long trigger, extended thumb safety and swelled up grip safety. it is fairly accuarate, functions well with normal ammo. bobn

 

[Alnamvet]

The differences in SA's from a particular model year

have everything to do with whether the pistol was completely put together at Imbel, and then shipped to the US, or shipped in the rugh, and assembled and finished in the US...typically, these early 1911's had blockier dustcovers and the grip was not radius to spec...the pistol frames and slides that were shipped directly to Springfield in the US in the rough, were finished and fitted more within original specs, and they showed...in most instances, their serial numbers started with NM, indicating they were fit and finished in the US...these pistols (the NM ones) also do not have Made in Brazil or the Imbel rollmark anywhere on the frame...I have a 2000 GI, and the fit and finish, as well as reliability are vastly superior to a Colt 1991 that I have also made in that year...the Colt fit, finish, as well as uneven and faint rollmark of the "Billboard" told me that Colt was not interested in QC at the time...I still have the 1991 which I use to settle arguements of this type about Colt quality vs. everyone else...and as a reminder of how far the high and mighty Colt had fallen.

 

[Detective_Special]

Springfield 45

I had bought one of the early ones when they first came out, late 80's early 90's if I'm not mistaken. It has a NM prefix which was rumored to be made in the US. I had called Springfield to find out where it was manufactured, and was told that all Springfields, including mine, were made in Brazil. I neglected to ask if they were assembled in the US or Brazil. Anyway, the fit on my Springfield is superb, in stock form it functions and feeds reliably with various type of ammo, as well as being extremely accurate. I still like Colts, but this Springfield is a keeper.

 

[Alnamvet]

If you asked where it was made...

technically, they are all made in Brazil...but if they are shipped in rough parts and assembled and finished in the US, then a stamp stating made in the USA is perfectly appropriate. Again, the law requires that if the handgun is a complete handgun and then shipped to the US, it is a legal requirement to stamp the frame as to its origins. The fact that you called SA suggests to me an abscence of any Made in Brazil stamping...did you remove the grip panels and check the grip for any stamp, BTW?

 

[Detective_Special]

Springfield

Thanks for your input, No "made in Brazil" stampings anywhere.

 

[yomama]

Have two of them that have been flawless.

Only part that worried me over time was the extractor, an MIM part from SA.

Had them both replaced with wilsons.

 

[IdahoG36]

Thanks for your input, No "made in Brazil" stampings anywhere

I have seen pics of Springfields that say MADE IN BRAZIL on the right side, behind the slide release pin. They are forged in Brazil by IMBEL and shipped to the U.S.

 

[Alnamvet]

Yes you have Idaho

and they are pistols completely assembled, finished, and exported to the US ready for retail. Other places for the Made in Brazil stamp is under the dustcover, and behind the right grip panel.

 

[Detective_Special]

Springfield

Guys, I've looked everywhere, no brazil or Imbel markings, Maybe it's a early version. Sorry for the quality of the pictures.

 

[Alnamvet]

Detective...

yours is assembled from rough forged parts right here in the good 'ol USA...be happy...some folks have issues with their Springfields having an Imbel or Made in Brazil mark...

 

[AK103K]

typically, these early 1911's had blockier dustcovers and the grip was not radius to spec...

actually, it was the early guns that were the closest to GI or Colt spec, not the later guns. bobn is right, they were not very accurate. The two Springfield "WWII" 1911's in the above pics were bought new when they were first released, back in the early 2000's or so. My loaded was new back in the late 90's, this is a bad pic, but you can see that its got the same blocky frame as one of the WWII guns.

here you can see how much larger the grip is due to it not being radiused.

I believe all my Springfields frames were stamped "Made in Brazil". The WWII's were stamped (one VERY lightly), down the front of the frame under the trigger guard. I no longer have any of them to look again. Actually, the only Springfield I still have, is an early M1A match rifle. After the continual problems with them, I swore off anything made by them, rifle or pistol. The last Springfield I bought was a SOCOM, which has also been sold.

I've actually sold off all but three of my 1911's, all Series 80's Colts, and no longer carry one. The reason being, even with a Colt, I still need to take a brand new gun and make changes to it so it suits me. Simple changes, like MSH's and triggers, but additional changes and costs all the same. I've moved on to SIG's, which come ready to go right out of the box, with no need to fiddle.

Everyone tells me that Springfield has such a great warranty department, and will take care of you. I never thought that it was such a "great" thing. I prefer to buy guns from a company that you never hear about their warranty service, as few ever have need of its services.

In 30 plus years, I've NEVER had to send a Colt back for repair. I have replaced plastic parts with Colt steel parts, but even the plastic parts worked and were noting more than a personal annoyance.

I carried a Colt 1911 of some sort, and mostly Commanders, daily, for around 30 years. Colts were the ONLY 1911 I trusted to carry, and I've owned a 1911's of some sort from just about every other major maker.

If you have a Springfield 1911, and it works well for you, count your blessings and I'm happy for you. If you are contemplating buying one, I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND that you look VERY CLOSELY at the gun when in the shop, and if at all possible, look at multiple samples of the same model to compare them. If it feels rough when you work the slide, dont assume it will "work in" or "clean up", as it probably wont, at least not without help. Check the triggers too. I've seen nice ones and terrible ones in guns that were only a few serial numbers apart. If they have a Colt in the shop too, compare them all together. I can pretty much guarantee that you will instantly notice the difference, especially in feel and function.

 

[bobn]

hm just found the imbel brazil next to the trigger guard on mine. bobn

 

[Alnamvet]

Sorry AK

but it as the earlier SA 1911's that were blockier and more out of spec...it was around 2002 when SA started radiusing the dust cover and grips more in line with Colt spec...

My SA was put together in the US...hence no Imbel/Made in Brazil anywhere.

 

[AK103K]

Alnamvet,

When I say "earlier" I mean mid to later 80's. I'm not sure when your talking about. I've owned Springfields since they first showed up, so I have a pretty good idea of what they have been like through the years. The guns Springfield first produced were close to GI "spec". The guns in the 90's started showing the different sized/configured frames. The last ones I bought were the WWII series you see in the pics and a Champion. They were still making or using or perhaps, using up old stock, through that series, since you can see both type frames on guns of the same series/serial number range.

The two WWII models you see in the pics were year 2000+ guns, and one has the blocky frame, the other doesnt, and both were in the same serial number range. Both of those pistols were stamped "made in Brazil" on the frame, as was my WWII Champion.