Sporterized M1 carbine
- Thread starter BlueTrain
- Start date
Sporterizing the carbine was a popular pastime back in the old days, and collectors like to bemoan the fact.
I have seen plenty of them, and in most cases, they were well done. Some were downright appealing. And yes, some had full length stocks with a ramp front sight.
If I were looking for a shooter, and found a sporter GI for a good price, I would snap it up. I wouldn't moan that some guy, possibly a WWII vet with a personal connection to the carbine, decided to make it just the way he wanted it after getting it mailed to him by the DCM for $20.
I love the little carbine, and was shooting my Inland just today.
I have seen plenty of them, and in most cases, they were well done. Some were downright appealing. And yes, some had full length stocks with a ramp front sight.
If I were looking for a shooter, and found a sporter GI for a good price, I would snap it up. I wouldn't moan that some guy, possibly a WWII vet with a personal connection to the carbine, decided to make it just the way he wanted it after getting it mailed to him by the DCM for $20.
I love the little carbine, and was shooting my Inland just today.
Dfariswheel
New member
The full length stocks were so popular that Williams Sight Company made a special fore end tip for just the Carbine.
I've seen all kinds of sporterized or just altered Carbines.
Some you sort of wondered about.
One was a do it yourself conversion to a pump action.
It had a wrap around pump handle that was bolted to the bottom of the operating handle "box" through slots cut in the bottom of the stock fore end.
Both Bishop and Fajen made a number of styles of sporter Carbine stocks.
Just about any kind of alteration you can think of was done to the Carbine back then.
I've seen all kinds of sporterized or just altered Carbines.
Some you sort of wondered about.
One was a do it yourself conversion to a pump action.
It had a wrap around pump handle that was bolted to the bottom of the operating handle "box" through slots cut in the bottom of the stock fore end.
Both Bishop and Fajen made a number of styles of sporter Carbine stocks.
Just about any kind of alteration you can think of was done to the Carbine back then.
dakota.potts
New member
I think what you're looking for would be called a Mannlicher stock. Here is an image of one pulled up when searching for M1 Carbine with Mannlicher STock
Old Planet of the Apes movies with Charleton Heston come to mind.
http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Planet_of_the_Apes_(1968)#Apes_Rifle_.28modified_M1_Carbine.29
http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Planet_of_the_Apes_(1968)#Apes_Rifle_.28modified_M1_Carbine.29
The Planet of the Apes movie was one of the things that made me think of a sporterized M1 carbine. Yet I've never before seen even a photograph of one. That beat-up carbine with the full-length stock doesn't really look that great, I agree.
Nevertheless, at one time sporterized military rifles were fairly popular and I've seen some that were very well done. One was a Krag, which would have to be one of the more difficult to work with. I don't know if sporterizing was economical or not but highly customized rifle stocks were also popular at the time. Older Gun Digests used to have a special section of custom stocks.
Nevertheless, at one time sporterized military rifles were fairly popular and I've seen some that were very well done. One was a Krag, which would have to be one of the more difficult to work with. I don't know if sporterizing was economical or not but highly customized rifle stocks were also popular at the time. Older Gun Digests used to have a special section of custom stocks.
Back in the '60s-'70s sporterizing military guns was quite the trend. If you flip t through the magazines (including American Rifleman) you would see plenty of articles and advertisements on sporterizing 03s, Mauser 98s and even a few on the M-1 Carbine and the Garand. The Garand was hard to get in the '70s so there weren't many articles on it. I didn't get a Garand until the '80s ('84 or '85) and it was an International Harvester my cousin found in Sacramento. Carbines were easier to procure (late '50s to early '60s it was super easy to get either and you could buy them from the CMP).
Modernly (2015) most folks have the conservation/preservation mindset and have grown to appreciate an object's historical value. Yay them.
I wouldn't mind converting a Carbine to the 22 Johnson spitfire. I'd do it with an IAI replica M-1.
ETA: when I attended SHOT two years ago, there was a firm that was making forged and milled M-1 Carbine and M-14 (civilian) receivers.
Modernly (2015) most folks have the conservation/preservation mindset and have grown to appreciate an object's historical value. Yay them.
I wouldn't mind converting a Carbine to the 22 Johnson spitfire. I'd do it with an IAI replica M-1.
ETA: when I attended SHOT two years ago, there was a firm that was making forged and milled M-1 Carbine and M-14 (civilian) receivers.
Dfariswheel
New member
On a separate topic, how close internally is an M-1 carbine to a Ruger Mini-thirty?
Really not very close at all.
The M1 Carbine has a short-stroke piston in a small gas cylinder.
The Mini-30, like the Mini-14 has a op rod with a long hollow block that fits over a long gas tube.
The M1 Rifle, M14, and Mini-14 and -30 all have similar trigger groups and bolts. The M1 Carbine is totally different.
The M1 Carbine Bolt is similar to the M1 Rifle.
The M1 Carbine receiver is nothing at all like the Mini-14 or -30.
Really not very close at all.
The M1 Carbine has a short-stroke piston in a small gas cylinder.
The Mini-30, like the Mini-14 has a op rod with a long hollow block that fits over a long gas tube.
The M1 Rifle, M14, and Mini-14 and -30 all have similar trigger groups and bolts. The M1 Carbine is totally different.
The M1 Carbine Bolt is similar to the M1 Rifle.
The M1 Carbine receiver is nothing at all like the Mini-14 or -30.
bamaranger
New member
caliber upgrade
I like the Mannlicher look, but could take it or leave it regards the carbine.
What I'd really like to see is a caliber upgrade on the war baby. Something down the lines of the Win SLR series, maybe .351 or a .401, or something new like a magnum 10mm.
There was an outfit headed down that path, using the .45 Win Mag I think, but they're gone.
I like the Mannlicher look, but could take it or leave it regards the carbine.
What I'd really like to see is a caliber upgrade on the war baby. Something down the lines of the Win SLR series, maybe .351 or a .401, or something new like a magnum 10mm.
There was an outfit headed down that path, using the .45 Win Mag I think, but they're gone.
"...carbines made in .22 Johnson Spitfire..." Iver Johnson commercial carbine.
"...how close internally is an M-1 carbine..." Like Dfariswheel says, they're not.
"...at one time sporterised military rifles were fairly popular..." Yep, but because you could buy the donor rifle relatively cheap. Aftermarket stuff like sticks weren't horrendously expensive either. That Mannlicher stock in 2008 was worth $55. You couldn't buy one now without a long search and a pile of money.
"...how close internally is an M-1 carbine..." Like Dfariswheel says, they're not.
"...at one time sporterised military rifles were fairly popular..." Yep, but because you could buy the donor rifle relatively cheap. Aftermarket stuff like sticks weren't horrendously expensive either. That Mannlicher stock in 2008 was worth $55. You couldn't buy one now without a long search and a pile of money.
Cheapshooter
New member
In those by gone days I had my share of sporterized Mausers. Regretted a coulpe, but still have one. But it wasn't a cash to trash job, but rather a K98 action that I had a new 6MM Remington barrel put on. Great looking Fajin stock, etc.
But even in those days of unknowingly destroying fine milsurp rifles, I never had the urge, or saw the point of sporterizing such an already sporty little gun as an M1 Carbine, or SMLE No.5 Jungle Carbine.
But even in those days of unknowingly destroying fine milsurp rifles, I never had the urge, or saw the point of sporterizing such an already sporty little gun as an M1 Carbine, or SMLE No.5 Jungle Carbine.
I myself would not alter an original in any way.But,thats just me.
I'd say "follow your bliss" on an aftermarket carbine.
IMO,the M-1 carbine is darn hard to improve upon.
On my aftermarket carbine I put an aftermarket replica of a GI folding stock to make it stash in my pickup a little better.
Without advocating altering an M-1 Carbine,one of the great sources of gun eye-candy was the older Gun Digests.John T Amber.60's and 70's.They did high grade color pictorials of custom rifles.
Beautiful custom rifles.
And,to my eye,the most interesting,elegant of these were Springfields,Mausers,and P-17/P-14's.
Its a bit sad to me that folks today have lost knowledge of how much those custom milsurps influenced the manufacturers of bolt action rifles .
The custom rifles made by gun cranks and the custom gunsmiths of the day led the way.
Had there not been the industry of converting milsurps...
In the first place,the import and availability of milsurps likely would not have happened.The rifles would have been scrapped.
Its the Bishop,Fajen,Timney,Brownells,Douglas,Clymer,etc economics that justified the sales of milsurp rifles.
Without the milsurp conversion industry,I doubt we would have some of the gunsmith schools,or cranky old gunsmiths.
Timney,Douglas,Shilen,Brownells,etc just would not have had the market to grow.
The crazy wildcatters would not have developed so many cartridges.
And I doubt the metallic reloading industry would be near what it is today.
No,I'm not advocating chopping original milsurps.
But,doggone,if somebody finds grandpa's stash of a couple of Brno 98's,aMexican 98, A p-14 with the ears ground off and prettied up,maybe even some 50 year old figured walnut blanks
We might set the judgementalism aside,remember the spirit of the "gun crank" and be thankful that someone values experience and creativity over what can be bought at the big box store.
I think we are better off with a few whackos walking around who can alter a bolt,chamber and headspace and thread a barrel,fit steel to wood,drill and tap a receiver without putting a hole in the chamber...
You get those skills by picking up some otherwise unused ...frankly,"junk" and having a vision.Then making that vision real with your hands.
That ,my friends,is disappearing,as our population allows those skills to become extinct.We become helpless.
Part of what protects the 2nd amendment,or,beyond the 2nd amendment,to the reason there is a 2nd amendment,
Is that guy with the file,and the chisel....
John Moses Browning did not have an elaborate shop,Iver Johnson made bicycles.Didn't Sam Colt whittle a wooden model of his revolver on a ship?
Too many people today substitute a quick draw MasterCard for these skills.Thats OK,free choice.But lets not sneer and put down the guy who can have a vision and create what he sees
I'd say "follow your bliss" on an aftermarket carbine.
IMO,the M-1 carbine is darn hard to improve upon.
On my aftermarket carbine I put an aftermarket replica of a GI folding stock to make it stash in my pickup a little better.
Without advocating altering an M-1 Carbine,one of the great sources of gun eye-candy was the older Gun Digests.John T Amber.60's and 70's.They did high grade color pictorials of custom rifles.
Beautiful custom rifles.
And,to my eye,the most interesting,elegant of these were Springfields,Mausers,and P-17/P-14's.
Its a bit sad to me that folks today have lost knowledge of how much those custom milsurps influenced the manufacturers of bolt action rifles .
The custom rifles made by gun cranks and the custom gunsmiths of the day led the way.
Had there not been the industry of converting milsurps...
In the first place,the import and availability of milsurps likely would not have happened.The rifles would have been scrapped.
Its the Bishop,Fajen,Timney,Brownells,Douglas,Clymer,etc economics that justified the sales of milsurp rifles.
Without the milsurp conversion industry,I doubt we would have some of the gunsmith schools,or cranky old gunsmiths.
Timney,Douglas,Shilen,Brownells,etc just would not have had the market to grow.
The crazy wildcatters would not have developed so many cartridges.
And I doubt the metallic reloading industry would be near what it is today.
No,I'm not advocating chopping original milsurps.
But,doggone,if somebody finds grandpa's stash of a couple of Brno 98's,aMexican 98, A p-14 with the ears ground off and prettied up,maybe even some 50 year old figured walnut blanks
We might set the judgementalism aside,remember the spirit of the "gun crank" and be thankful that someone values experience and creativity over what can be bought at the big box store.
I think we are better off with a few whackos walking around who can alter a bolt,chamber and headspace and thread a barrel,fit steel to wood,drill and tap a receiver without putting a hole in the chamber...
You get those skills by picking up some otherwise unused ...frankly,"junk" and having a vision.Then making that vision real with your hands.
That ,my friends,is disappearing,as our population allows those skills to become extinct.We become helpless.
Part of what protects the 2nd amendment,or,beyond the 2nd amendment,to the reason there is a 2nd amendment,
Is that guy with the file,and the chisel....
John Moses Browning did not have an elaborate shop,Iver Johnson made bicycles.Didn't Sam Colt whittle a wooden model of his revolver on a ship?
Too many people today substitute a quick draw MasterCard for these skills.Thats OK,free choice.But lets not sneer and put down the guy who can have a vision and create what he sees
Nice post, Mr. HiBC. I'd add to your comment by saying that customizing production firearms continues to influence the gun industry, the same way that wildcat cartridges influences new cartridges. Whether any of that is important is another story.
At one time, "gunsmiths" were held to a high standard of workmanship. I recall an article in an old gun magazine about August Pachmeyer and how he could build (or create) a rifle or shotgun from scratch using little more than files. None of us could afford something like that but it was certainly a high mark of craftsmanship. The cost of fine craftsmanship is why the fine guns of the past, from L.C. Smith to the pre-war S&W .357s and even Colt Pythons, are no longer available. But there are still some very high quality firearms available if you are willing to pay the price. Very high quality is available in just about every kind of product from shoes to cars, if you are willing to pay the price. It doesn't follow that the best craftsmanship is what you want the most in something but that's another story.
At one time, "gunsmiths" were held to a high standard of workmanship. I recall an article in an old gun magazine about August Pachmeyer and how he could build (or create) a rifle or shotgun from scratch using little more than files. None of us could afford something like that but it was certainly a high mark of craftsmanship. The cost of fine craftsmanship is why the fine guns of the past, from L.C. Smith to the pre-war S&W .357s and even Colt Pythons, are no longer available. But there are still some very high quality firearms available if you are willing to pay the price. Very high quality is available in just about every kind of product from shoes to cars, if you are willing to pay the price. It doesn't follow that the best craftsmanship is what you want the most in something but that's another story.
Well, back to the carbine...to me, it just about feels like a sporter in its original configuration. Light, short...and for me, it points and handles very naturally.
When I got my CMP Inland, I bought a repro M1A1 folding stock. My years of reading history made me want to see what the folder used in Normandy was like.
I just didn't like it. Now, I've had other rifles with folders that I have liked a lot, but the M1A1 stock just didn't work for me at all, and I quickly put my carbine back in the Rockola stock it came in.
I'm glad to have tried it though.
The M1 carbine is an American success story in the speed of its design, adoption, and production speed and quantity. The end result eminently usable with a unique cartridge which performs well, and optimized for, CQB.
Last week, when I shot mine, I rapid fired a 15rd mag at 25yds. Standing, offhand and firing as fast as I could pull the trigger and flash the sight on target.
The result was a nice little group.
When I got my CMP Inland, I bought a repro M1A1 folding stock. My years of reading history made me want to see what the folder used in Normandy was like.
I just didn't like it. Now, I've had other rifles with folders that I have liked a lot, but the M1A1 stock just didn't work for me at all, and I quickly put my carbine back in the Rockola stock it came in.
I'm glad to have tried it though.
The M1 carbine is an American success story in the speed of its design, adoption, and production speed and quantity. The end result eminently usable with a unique cartridge which performs well, and optimized for, CQB.
Last week, when I shot mine, I rapid fired a 15rd mag at 25yds. Standing, offhand and firing as fast as I could pull the trigger and flash the sight on target.
The result was a nice little group.
