Something we rarely touch on when debating the .223vs.308 effectiveness

S

Schmit

Staff Alumnus
Been following this thread, off an on, since it's inception.

What, exactly, is this thread about now?

What I mean is that it has went off on so many different tangents (though somewhat related) that I'm now confused on exactly what we are discussing. :confused:

Target Shooting?
Military Operation Employment?
Marksmenship Ability?
Recoil Effect on Marksmenship?
Tactics?
Cartridge Performance?
Exterior & Terminal Ballistics?


Sooooo many seperate topics in a single thread! ;) (4 pages worth)

Me thinks it getting time to wrap this one up and possibly start a few other topics (see above) IRT .223 v .308. Do I hear a Second?
 
C

Correia

New member
Your right Schmidt. Probably mostly my faut (massive thread drift). This is what happens when I have a couple of slow days at work. :)
 
T

Turk

New member
JohnKSa

Your Post!!!!!

I think this debate is severely lacking in reality.

1. The reason you don't fire on military targets from a long way away is because they'll rain fire and destruction on you while they lie behind something and wait for you to die.


I totally agree with you.

I can tell you an actual experience. While pulling road security along HWY 19 west of AnKhe Vietnam in 1968 my squad was getting sniped at. (lucky for use the guy was a bad shot) but was getting to be a pain in the rear. We responded with MaDuce fire into the tree line 400-600 meters out and the firing would stop for a while then start back up. After a couple rounds pinged off the track I got really feed up and called the grunts best friend (REDLEG). After a numerous rounds of 105 chewed up the tree line the firing stopped. Redleg either got the guy or his pucker factor rose to levels that weren't acceptable to him.

Turk
 
S

Schmit

Staff Alumnus
Correia

Don't get me wrong... I'm not trying to lay blame at all... its just that are so may good topics in this one thread it is getting difficult to address them all.
 
J

Jamie Young

New member
Schmit- Do you think someone with an M1 Garand in .223 (I know its blasphemy) is going to shoot better under stress than someone with a standard M1 Garand?
 
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S

Schmit

Staff Alumnus
You mean a Mini-14? :D

That is a tough question. All else being equal probably. But then you have to take into account the stress, how the individual handles that stress, his training, his marksmanship skills, and his mindset.

Given the choice for all day target shooting I'd rather have a .223.

Given the choice for "combat" shooting (normal out in the field type stuff, not CQB and the like) I'd rather have a .308. My concern in that environment is going to be penetration, range and terminal ballistics.
 
S

Senior_rifleman

New member
SodaPop,

Did you have your tongue in your cheek when you opined that you don't know anyone who came out of the military that knew how to shoot? Are you saying that you are a hermit?
 
Q

Quartus

New member
Well, Soda, you stepped in it there! I'm sure you'll hear from others, but last time I qualified while still in uniform, I shot expert. Wind was contrary - gusting to 30 mph plus across the line of fire. I still did well hitting the 300 meter targets. That was hitting them with bullets, not with a pencil, like many do.

I can still hit pretty well.
 
M

markmcj

New member
Hi guys, I have followed many topics involving to pros and cons of the .223 and .308 debate on this board and others. And there is always the someone that will state that the .308 will shoot through this or that. Even in this topic someone stated that "after a magazine out of my hk91 I could see daylight where there use to be brick" {semi quote sorry} . The question I have is, do you think the bad guy will still be there if you dump a mag at a wall where you thought he was at? Besides, you would have depleted
10% of you 200 round battle pack.
Another point that I've picked up in a different post, at 50 yds a .38 {158 gr} at 1100 fps at the muzzle has about 360 lbs of energy, at 400 yds a .223 {55 gr fmj}with 3100 at the muzzle is running around the same. From what I understand there are a lot of fellas pushing up daisys from .38's. I think for a general issue weapon, the m-series that the goverment issues is ample.
There is no doubt, for a longer reach way out and touch something rifle, the .30's are the right choice.
To each there own, hell I have an AR in .223 and a .308 bolt gun.

mark mcj
 
J

Jamie Young

New member
Did you have your tongue in your cheek when you opined that you don't know anyone who came out of the military that knew how to shoot?
Click to expand...

No I was just trying to see how many TFL members I could get to flame me.:p
 
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