So?

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nate45

New member
I don't think the war in Iraq is worth fighting, neither do 2/3 of the American people. So what?

We gotta 'stay the course', 'keep fighting them over there, so we don't have to fight them over here'. Things will turn around. When you would like to know. So what?

It dosen't matter why we went to Iraq and if you think it does. So what?

If there is anthing else you can think of you don't like about it. So what? Who cares.

Your probably thinking that sure sounds smug and condescending. So what?

Cheney on 2/3 of Americans Opposing Iraq War: "So What?"

I know this story is slightly dated (last week) however after debating and questioning the war on several threads, I have come to the conclusion this is the best answer we will get. From the administration and the pro war people.

You people don't like, So what?
 
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gc70

New member
nate45 - let me play devil's advocate. You quoted a soundbite from a blog article, which cites a soundbite of poll results from a CNN news story, which does not even provide a link to the full results of CNN's own poll. A Google search located the CNN poll results, along with other recent major polls on Iraq.

So a blog plucks a soundbite out of an interview and uses it to flog Cheney. And the soundbite was based on the question "All in all, do you think the situation in Iraq was worth going to war over, or not?" It's not surprising that, in retrospect, the majority of Americans now think that the decision to go to war in Iraq was not very good. But that is not the only thought held by Americans.

The cross-section of polls show that Americans are becoming more confident that we can prevail in Iraq. CBS News has done a series of consistent polls on Iraq over the last six months.
  • "How would you say things are going for the U.S. in its efforts to bring stability and order to Iraq?"
    positive answers increased from 34% to 43%
  • "As you may know, the U.S. has sent a troop surge to Iraq. From what you have heard or read, would you say the troop surge is making the situation in Iraq better, making it worse, or is it having no impact on the situation in Iraq so far?"
    positive answers increased from 30% to 42%
Cheney is a politician. He probably does not care a lot about what people think about something in the past. But I would bet that he is well aware of the poll results that show Americans are increasingly positive about what is happening now.
 
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nate45

New member
nate45 - let me play devil's advocate. You quoted a soundbite from a blog article, which cites a soundbite of poll results from a CNN news story, which does not even provide a link to the full results of CNN's own poll. A Google search located the CNN poll results, along with other recent major polls on Iraq.
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He was on GMA I remember seeing it. I don't read that blog I just Googled 'Cheney So? and it was one of the first ones. Here is a ABC News story:Exclusive: Cheney Cites 'Major Success' in Iraq, Says U.S. Has Hit 'Rough Patch'
Vice President Commemorates Five Years in Iraq, Insists U.S. Economy Not in Recession

Heres an interesting comment he made. Pressed on the question of what sacrifice most Americans have made to the war effort, Cheney touted the strength of a volunteer force, pushing away the idea of an instituted draft.

"I suppose you could have created a sense of sacrifice if you'd gone back to the draft, but that would have, in my opinion, done serious damage to the state of our military," Cheney said.

As opposed to this:Military Tells Bush of Troop Strains So what? It dosen't matter we will pervail if it takes a thousand years an a gazillion dollars. Those troops are ok they just need a couple days R&R and they'll be ready for another 18 months.
 
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jrfoxx

New member
Are you surprised by this? The feds ( as well as state and local governments too, for that matter) have a pretty good track record of ignoring what the majority of the people say they want, when our wishes dont agree with what they want, or think is best.Just look at the fight over states medical marijuana laws, the abuse of the commerce clause, real ID, and lots of other things.The armed citizenry is really all that keeps them in line at all, IMHO.If they have no problem ignoring the will of the people on 1 thing, there would be nothing stopping them from ignoring us on whatever they plese, if it werent fo fear of death/imprisonment (becasue loss of job/position only keeps them in line as long as they are willing to abide by our votes, if they chose to ignore that too, the RKBA would be/is all thats left to keep them in line, (if enough of ther military were willing to go along and continue to back them up))
That said, I personally happen to support the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, but that still doesnt mean I'm at all happy about them ignoring the will of the overwhelming majority of the people/states (assuming that is actually the case with the people feeling on the war, as I'm not convinced it is just based on polls and such, but if they held it to a vote, and the vote said pull out, I wouldnt like it personally, but I really couldnt argue if they did it, and think it would be wrong if they ignored it and stayed anyways.)Plenty of evindence every day, all over the world that there are LOTS of people for whom morals just arent/wouldnt be enough to keep them from doing as they please, but luckily, for the vast majority of us, it is enough, and the fear of puishment (including death and/or imprisonment) just adds to it to keep the rest in line for the most part.
 
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nate45

New member
Are you surprised by this?
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No, not at all.

You see I don't dislike Vice President Cheney or President Bush, in fact in all my L&P posts you can't find one where I deride them. I'm one of the few Americans left that still respects the office of the Presidency. I do however disagree with them on the Iraq War policy among other things.

Some of us have been going round and round debating the merits and reasons for the Iraq war, both sides have made good points. In the end though it's all for naught, because regardless of what anyone on this board or in the country thinks we will continue to 'stay the course'.

I really do hope we are successful and achieve some semblance of victory, thats all we can hope for, because its more that obivious we are there to stay. No amount of debate or polling data is going to change that.
 
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TwoXForr

New member
We are run by an representative democracy, we choose the leaders and they lead with the best information at thier disposal.

Like in the military the leaders do not have to ask the troops were they are to be lead. They just say go, and the troops go.

You can disagree with the President all you want, write the nastiest things you can, but his job is to lead as he sees fit. Opinion polls are not anywhere in the consitution or the federalists papers for that matter. He is a leader, he does what he thinks is best for the country. If he is doing something illegeal there is a way to remove him and replace him with someone else, also there is something called the checks and balances. If congress wanted the war over, they could cut the money. And we the people vote for those guys too.

As for the man himself, George Bush, he may not be a great communicator but he does follow his convictions unlike his predecessor who couldnt take a crap without worrying about his "legacy" or how something might appear.

I kinda like the "so" answer. It at least shows some backbone, and not holding your finger up to the wind to see which way it blows today.
 
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JaserST4

New member
He said 'so?' Not "so what?' 'So?' is more concise, direct and really gets to the crux of the issue more efficiently. I like efficient government workers. My new motto: "Just say SO?"
 
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gc70

New member
but that still doesnt mean I'm at all happy about them ignoring the will of the overwhelming majority of the people/states (assuming that is actually the case with the people feeling on the war, as I'm not convinced it is just based on polls and such, but if they held it to a vote, and the vote said pull out, I wouldnt like it personally, but I really couldnt argue if they did it, and think it would be wrong if they ignored it and stayed anyways.)
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Someone seems to have opinions contrary to ours or those reflected in the polls. The President is not the only power in the US. If the majority of the 535 members of Congress wanted the US out of Iraq, they could force the issue. Why have they not done so?
 
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nate45

New member
He said 'so?' Not "so what?'
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What pray tell is the title of this thread?

83_mcc22.gif

"A premature withdrawal from Iraq would endanger Israel"

SO?

Hey I like it! Works great.

If the majority of the 535 members of Congress wanted the US out of Iraq, they could force the issue. Why have they not done so?
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There is a clue in this post. Can you spot it?
 
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applesanity

New member
Harry S. Truman was famous for always saying, "So What?" in so many words. Nuking the Japs but not nuking the Chinese, firing MacArthur, desegregating the Army, etc. He was hated when he left office. History remembers him now as one of the greatest.
 
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nate45

New member
I like it too Hawg Haggen. Remember the 2000 Presidential debates? Cheney absolutely destroyed Lieberman, I always wished he were President, well some say he is. W is ok, he has to do, what he has to do. Not many if any politicians tell it like it is anymore.

My favorite one did.
Ronald_Reagan.jpg

"Within the covers of the Bible are all the answers for all the problems men face."- Ronald Reagan
 
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Wildalaska

Moderator
Dang! Thats the problem with the Ignore list, I get to miss some fireworks...:D

WildowellcarryonguysyoureadhisstuffAlaska ™
 
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nate45

New member
gc70 said:
Could the "clue" point to something that must remain unsaid because:
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No, not at all. Theres no conspiracy to it. AIPAC(American Israeli Public Affairs Commitee) is a well known fact, they are one of the most powerful and well funded lobbying groups in Washington. It's my opinion that the protection of Israel was one of the primary reasons we went to Iraq. The safety and well being of Israel is the primary concern of AIPAC. AIPAC has as much right to lobby congress as the NRA, the fact that congress people are susceptible to lobbyists is not a theory either.
 
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gc70

New member
Okay, if your contention is that a single lobby has more influence over a majority of the members of Congress than the American people, maybe we should ask that lobby what our future in Iraq will be.

If your point is that Iraq is a war that the US should not have gotten into, the polls show that the majority of Americans agree with you - end of story.

If your point is that we should get out of Iraq, that's a different story. What do the majority of Americans think about that question? And IF a majority of Americans think we should get out, why isn't Congress acting on the will of the people? Do you think the members of Congress have good reasons or are merely puppets for some lobby?
 
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nate45

New member
Okay, if your contention is that a single lobby has more influence over a majority of the members of Congress than the American people, maybe we should ask that lobby what our future in Iraq will be.
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I'm sure many a guncontrol advocate has looked at the polls and wondered why the NRA could influence congress and get it's way over the 'majority'. It's the nature of the beast.

You don't have to ask AIPAC, I can tell you. We will 'stay the course' for however long it takes. Were in it to win it.
 
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TwoXForr

New member
Let me see, we went to Iraq for cheap oil, that is working out well.

And

To keep Israel safe. From the headlines I see Isreal is now a land of peace and tranquility with no need for checkpoints or security of any kind.

Wow that plan by the Isreali lobbyists worked out real good.
 
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Alleykat

Moderator
No, not at all. Theres no conspiracy to it. AIPAC(American Israeli Political Action Commitee) is a well known fact, they are one of the most powerful and well funded lobbying groups in Washington. It's my opinion that the protection of Israel was one of the primary reasons we went to Iraq. The safety and well being of Israel is the primary concern of AIPAC. AIPAC has as much right to lobby congress as the NRA, the fact that congress people are susceptible to lobbyists is not a theory either.
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That's an absurd, naive conjecture. Israel was under no danger from Iraq. Israel has nukes, plus the best-trained armed forces in the world. They could remove Iraq from the face of the Earth in seconds.
 
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