So I want a leveraction...

CraigC

Moderator
So I've talked myself into this gun. Anyone care to talk me out?

Hell no, sounds like you've got it all figured out!

I suppose efficiency and capability depend on who you talk to. Most the guys on the Leverguns.com forum consider the .357Mag in a rifle to be nipping at the heels of the .30-30. Anybody that puts the .30-30 head and shoulders above the big bore magnum revolver cartridges is looking at energy figures only.
 

garryc

New member
I'm gonna disagree with most of you. For his stated purpose I'd say a 45colt. With a blackhawk as the side arm I'd carry heavy loads. Maybe get the Puma 454 so I could shoot 45 colt or 454
 

Avec Bien

New member
My 2 cents

The .357 should be able to take deer and small hogs out to 100 yards with proper placement from what I've researched.

Buffalo Bore ammunition from an 18.5 inch Marlin 1894

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard Cast = 1851 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC = 1860 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Speer Uni Core = 2153 fps
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Speer Uni Core = 2298 fps


Check out this article:
http://gunblast.com/Winchester-Ranger357.htm

Also these might be helpful:

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/pa...literature.htm

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/357_magnum_safari.htm
 

jheitertusa

New member
Also keep in mind that high powered rifles are illegal for hunting in many states, so comparing a .357 mag levergun to a 30-30 or saying "get a real rifle round" is often a moot point if your intenetion is to be able to hunt with it.

Here in Indiana we are stuck with slug guns, muzzleloaders, handguns, or handgun caliber rifles. And of course, bows.
 

3StrikesNC

New member
I shoot a ruger GP100, 6 inch barrel, .357.
I also shoot a Marlin 1894 .357 (micro grrove barrel).
I load my own.
158 grain semi jacketed hollow point bullets, 12.5 to 13 grains of Blue Dot.
Load is hot for the Ruger, calm for the Marlin. Never chrono'd. Maybe not the best load, but it works for me. Tried 2400 powder, don't like it, sucks in my pistol (rifle load anyway).
I don't shoot 180, 110 grain or anything else.
For .38 specials I back the charge down to 8 grains.
 

rocinante

New member
I got my 1894CB for 460 used off gunbroker.com It had an action job, the safety plug, one piece titanium firing pin, and new fixed rear sights. Looked brand new without a mark on the wood or metal. I guess I took a gamble on a modded gun but it fires 38 special perfectly and I got an upgraded rifle for a base 1894C price. I am real happy with it.

I got mine strictly for cowboy action shooting so I can't vouch for what hunting rounds to use. I can say it is nice to shoot the same ammo in the rifle and the vaqueros. If you plan on shooting the thing at all and you don't have money flowing out of your ears 38 special is a lot cheaper than hotter 357 magnum cartridges.
 

katana8869

New member
I really, really wanted a Marlin .357 1894c or a Cowboy model as a companion to my 3" GP100, but the $700 - $750 price tag that I have seen around here is just more than I am willing to pay for that type of rifle. If I pursue it any further, I will probably end up going for one of the Pumas.

I wanted the gun as a medium range deer, hog and coyote rifle. While I am mulling it over, I bought a slug barrel for my 870 and after shooting that I think that it may fill the role just as well.

I still want a .357 lever though! :)
 

Wayward_Son

New member
Well I bit the bullet yesterday. My gun range here in Beaumont (Leger's) told me their supplier was out of stock for the last two weeks, but when I went shooting yesterday I had them check again and there was one available. I paid the deposit and the gun will be here on Tuesday. The price was $697, came to $742 with tax. That's still $37 cheaper after tax than Gander's price tag before tax. Unfortunately my weekend is tied up with karate functions in Houston all weekend (Kagawa Sensei will be at a seminar at UH) and I'll have to wait two weeks before I get to shoot my new Marlin.

3StrikesNC: Do you use that handload for the hunting I've described? If so, what are your results?
 

tenholewheels

New member
emf hartford 1892

i have one in .357 20" octagonal barrel. its built on the 1892 action. its my do all go to gun. sure i have ar's and ak's heck i even have the mighty FAL but last week when someone was trying to beat my front door down i reached for....you guessed me and bad martha thats what i call her. and out the back door we went i knew it would work, no oops its powder fouled or your gas setting is wrong blah blah..i worked that velvety smooth action and when that guy saw that long blue barrel pointed at his head he ceased and dissisted his actions. no worries just a lost drunk. sheriff pointed him home safely. then when the deputy came back he said "what did you point at that guy" so i showed the deputy my emf, he said right quick like "i gotta get me one of those" lol .
 

44 AMP

Staff
Bullet selection is VERY important

The key to getting good performance from the .357 magnum in a rifle is bullet selection. Do a search, I have covered this before.

Because the rifle gives several hundred feet per second gain over the handgun, bullet performance is not the same. JHP bullets (and most JSP) are designed to function correctly at handgun velocities, and become rather "explosive" when pushed to rifle speeds. The only bullet type you can count on to act the same is the solid SWC, cast hard. These bullets are not designed to expand, and so at rifle speeds they retain their proper performance, increasing in penetration, if anything. However, the SWC is not a good bullet for small game, except with precise placement.

For example, I once saw someone put 3 rounds of Winchester 158gr Luballoy into a skunk, the first two without effect. The 3rd round clipped the spine, and took out the back legs. The first two shots were too far back, missing the heart/lungs, and gutshot, the skunk hunched at each shot, but kept on walking. A proper heart shot, or a head shot would have put down the pest cleanly, but the shooter didn't manage that. In fact, so distressed was this individual at the "failure" of the mighty .357 that he begged me to finish off the skunk with the .45 Colt handgun I was wearing. One round of 250gr SWC to the head put sent the skunk to whereever it is that shunks go for their afterlife.

Correct bullet selection AND proper placement is the key to making the .357 magnum a very useful and handy small game, pest, and short range deer rifle. Just remember that what you have is not a rifle, but a pistol caliber carbine. For small game and pests, the JHP/JSP bullets intended for the handgun work quite well, expanding violently, like varmint bullets. For small deer, and hogs, these same bullets, while working well enough from the handgun, often fail when fired from a rifle, blowing up and while creating a horrendous surface wound, they can lack the penetration to get to the boiler room and cleanly put the animal down. The hard cast lead SWC on the other hand, just drives right on, often completely through. Many people put too much emphasis on expanding bullets, believing that a bullet that doesn't expand is nearly worthless. Nothing could be further from the truth. While a properly behaving expanding bullet does give the best performance, combining expansion with penetration, an improperly behaving bullet (an expanding bullet when pushed too fast) often fails to deliver the desired results. Understand that an expanding bullet will only deliver proper controlled expansion in a certain range of velocities. Too slow, and it doesn't open up. Too fast and it opens up like a small grenade, usually before reaching the vital area of game animals. The 125gr JHP that has such a great reputation as a defense round from a handgun will kill like lightning small animals such as skunks, muskrat, even coyote with a proper hit, because when fired from a rifle, the increased velocity becomes a significant factor. Fire the same round at a deer, and chances are you won't be happy with the results. With the 125gr, only a neck or head shot should be taken, because the bullet will likely blow up on the shoulder bones and not penetrate to the heart/lungs. Standing broadside, where you can be sure of missing the shoulder bones ought to work as well, as even though the bullet will blow up on a rib, it will create a lot of fragments that will usually drop the deer. You might lose some meat that way, though.

The 158gr SWC will have the penetration for getting through the shoulder, or for raking angles, and will not blow up, if cast hard. Same bullet for hogs should do fine as well. You don't need expansion, you need penetration, and of course, proper placement. Note that the big 40+ caliber rifles used for hunting dangerous game in Africa rely heavily on "solids", for penetration, not on expanding bullets.

You are enamored of carrying "only one kind of ammo" for both rifle and pistol, and in a sense you do. But, if you want proper performance on a variety of game, while you will be carring only one caliber of ammo, you will want to have at least a couple of different loads. Solids for best performance on big game, JHP/JSP for pests, and I would recommend the lowly .38 Special LRN for a low (relativly for the rifle) speed load for edible small game. Hit a rabbit with a .357 JHP from a rifle and unless you make the head shot, you'll likely only have half a rabbit left! The .38 Spl will collect camp meat with a lot less destruction, even from the rifle.

Choose the righ ammo for your task, hit in the right place for the ammo used, and the .357 carbine won't let you down.

Sorry I can't give you any pointers on which factory ammo is best for what, as I handload extensively, and haven't bought or shot any factory ammo (besides .22LR) for years. I have pushed the 125gr JHP to 2200fps from my Marlin carbine (max loads), and they don't perform well at those speeds. Blow pieces of a varmint into the next county, but unless everything is perfect, only cripple a deer, and ruin a lot of meat in the process.

Tip: Some of the rifles don't feed the SWC bullet very well if you try to cycle the action too fast, or at an unusual angle. What happens is the round gets slightly misaligned, and hangs up on the edge of the chamber. You can feel this as soon as you start to close the lever. When (if) this happens, don't try to force the lever closed, you will only jam things up good. Pop the lever forward, and then close it. Usually it will close smoothly. What pushing the lever forward does is it takes the pressure from the bolt off the base of the round, allowing it to fall back into its correct position on the lifter again, and when it does, then it will chamber smoothly. Round nose profile bullets usually don't do this, and some rifles don't do it with SWCs, but if yours does, try it.

Also, be careful about overall cartridge length. I don't use the 180gr bullets in any of my .357s (rifle or handgun), but I did see one rifle jammed with some 210gr LRN handloads. The rifle had to be taken apart before the jam could be cleared. Rounds that are too long CAN go in the magazine, but will jam the gun tight when you try to feed them. If you want to shoot rounds like this, they must be single loaded directly into the chamber.

Enjoy your carbine, they are a great little gun. Just don't push it beyond what it is capable of, and you won't be let down.
 

gc70

New member
Wayward Son

Congratulations on your purchase. Leverguns are both versatile and a ton of fun. May you enjoy yours for many years to come.
 

3StrikesNC

New member
Wayward;

I've taken the load on deer hunts (regularly with the pistol backup), but never shot any. I use a .35 Rem - Marlin, and plan on using my new .444.

Sorry, paper/metal targets only.
 

Wayward_Son

New member
Well I have my new carbine. My first feelings are mixed. I'm a little disappointed in the wood stock. It doesn't fit as flush to the receiver and barrel as I'd like, and for seven-hundred bucks that's a legitimate complaint if you ask me.

This Cowboyed, smoothed-out action also feels much rougher than I expected, but everything looks very dry and the manual actually tells me to disassemle the gun and clean/lubricate it before I fire it for the first time so maybe I'm being overly critical.

Aside from those two gripes, I like the way it shoulders. It's short, light and handy. I can't wait to get it lubricated and out to the range.
 

tube_ee

New member
Carry On,

Wayward Son.

The way to slick up that Marlin is to shoot the bejeezus out of it. THe more they get worked, the smoother they get. There is a procude out there for tuning up Marlin lever actions, it's on one of the CASS sites, don't have the URL handy. But the first step is to get out there and shoot the thing.

Which, you will discover quickly, is no hard task.

For hunting, there is a ton of info, all of which supports the idea of a heavy-for-caliber bullet, pushed as fast as can safely and accurately be achieved. Some prefer the heavy JHPs, others the hard-cast lead. Lead tends to move a bit faster, JHP will expand more. There are jacketed bullets that hold together and penetrate at carbine speeds, and there are bullets that don't. Choose wisely. For edible small game, the lowly .38 Special wadcutter is a great choice. Kills 'em dead, and doesn't tear up much meat, out of both handgun and carbine. Plus, every gun seems to shoot them well.

Nice gun!!

--Shannon
 

gak

New member
I would echo those that have touted the Winchester 92 design....lighter, slimmer in profile, very strong action. If you don't need a scope (which many pistol-caliber shooters don't care for) - this is the way to go. Fun gun. Brazilian made Rossi 92s now imported by EMF, LSI/Puma - and formerly (yesteryear) by Interarms. These Rossis cannot be beat for value, reliability and general shooting fun. Any that are rough out of the box slick up pretty good with a couple hundred dry leverings - or contact Steve Young (aka Nate Kiowa Jones) who hangs out over at www.leverguns.com forum or www.stevesgunz.com . as the best 92 tunesmith around. Armi Sport 92s are pricier and made in Italy, imported by Taylors and Cimarron. Steve likes (and works on) these well enough - they are nicely finished on the outside and really nail the original look and feel -- but finds they need a few Rossi change out parts to work to his satisfaction.

Winchester also made a limited/pricey run of 92s (1892s) in recent years (after no production since pre WWII), all with safeties and rebound hammers however....but being made by/in Miroku, Japan, they are primo quality. Also, while getting particularly hard to find these days, Browning made a 92 about 25 years ago that's tops - also made in the Miroku plant, but having none of the recent add-on safeties. .44 Mags can be found fairly easily, and are not cheap--middle to upper '00s, but the .357s are particularly hard to find and are pricier (upper '00s--like the recent Armi Sports). If cost not too much a factor, find one of these increasingly rare .357 Brownings and hae a lifetime weapon you can also pass on with pride. Centennial models (with the engraving and gold saddle ring) actually may be more plentiful and sometimes go for slightly cheaper---but most folks opt for the regular, unadorned model (still with gold trigger). Cannot beat a Browning 92 (B92).
 

T.A.Sharps

New member
I have no experience with the capabilities of a 357 in hunting.

But, I'm planning the same thing, a nice Marlin CB in 357, and maybe a Ruger SAA to go with it. I figure the 38cal bullet will be easier or more affordable to buy and reload, pluse you have, if I have this right, .38, .38+p, .38Special, and .357 Mags you can shoot in it, maybe more that I dont know of.

That is a lot of commercially available cartridges you can find, with a wide range of velocities to work better in your rifle, or to a specific need.
 

T.A.Sharps

New member
BTW

I own a Marlin 1895CB in 45/70, and the accuracy is sub MOA.

I had a .43" grouping at 100 yards, with a .458" bullet.

Iron sights, buckhorns.

It almost scares me to think what it could get with a mechanical firing rig with no human variable.
 
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