so, 6.5 Manbun, or ???

[Double Naught Spy]

Yeah, I don't think 6.5 Creedmore is a fad in the strictest sense. It is quite popular, sure enough, but has some legs on it and has been around for a decade and it isn't going away. Short-lived popularity would be a fad. Longer term popularity is not.

Such casual dismissal of the caliber as a fad is premature at best, given its history, and given that it continues to remain popular, spreading across platforms, manufacturers, and ammo suppliers, it seems to be so much more than a fad. It is established.

As Jon Sundra characterized it, it is a 10 year overnight sensation.

 

[hooligan1]

6.5 PRC

First of all if you have tried the Creedmoor than you know it's no fad.
Secondly George Gardner and the folks at Hornady came up with the PRC to have a cartridge that would shoot high BC 140'grn bullets at 3150 in a short action rifle, it gets more barrel life than the 6.5 SAUM, 6.5 WIN MAG, AND 6.5-300.
The 6.5 Creedmoor I own will shoot very nicely, with a variety of different weight bullets and powders, what's not to like about it really.....

 

[Tallest]

Some fads are better, or more palatable, than others

I think the trouble with the 6.5 Creedmoor fad is that, while it has true merit, it has been so widely (and vocally) accepted and celebrated by folks who don't understand why it is so good, or don't care to use it for it's strengths.

I'm the first to laugh and reiterate the "6.5 Manbun" criticism because I have encountered a number of those folks first hand. They're usually young men, like myself, who have used AR's or their grandpa's 30-30 to kill a couple deer, hogs or coyotes and now are dropping $1500+ on precision rigs in 6.5 CM so they can go down to the range, get the tightest groups possible with factory ammo at 100 or 200 yds. Then kill a couple more deer with them. When asked why they selected the Creedmoor, the answer is some variation on, "*cough*scoff* It's just better, man!" while never deigning to make eye contact because my budget 7-08 which is grouping similarly is "ballistically inferior," and by association, so am I.

Ok... I may be over stating my case, but my experience iterates a justified frustration. You don't need a high BC, long range bullet to hunt whitetail. And no amount of tactical gear and technical jargon will justify choosing the wrong, or less right, tool if your comportment denotes intellectual superiority.

People who are truly invested and edjucated in their guns, be it long-developed hobby or full-fledged lifestyle, are, in my mind, justified in being frustrated with a mass influx of ignorance. Especially when the dollars being spent in that ignorance make waves in the industry.

*That is NOT to say that those who like and/or appreciate the 6.5 CM are ignorant. But it's one thing to go after something because it's popular to do so. It's another thing entirely to buy and use something for it's merits and intended purpose.*

BUT, after my diatribe, this IS America. You can freely spend your money however you like.

 

[FrankenMauser]

Well said, good sir.
Well said.

 

[Don Fischer]

I am just not sure what the advantage of the Creed moore is over the 260 Rem. As I understand it the bullet can be seated farther out of the case? But in order to do that the case was made just a very small bit shorter than the 260 Rem case? I got no problem with either round, I like 6.5's. But to sell this idea as I understand it you really need to have a good line of BS!

 

[emcon5]

I am just not sure what the advantage of the Creed moore is over the 260 Rem. As I understand it the bullet can be seated farther out of the case? But in order to do that the case was made just a very small bit shorter than the 260 Rem case? I got no problem with either round, I like 6.5's. But to sell this idea as I understand it you really need to have a good line of BS!

CM case is shorter, but has less taper and a steeper shoulder, improving capacity for the length. I have heard conflicting reports of the case capacity, some claim it is essentially the same as the .260, but others show it holds 1 less grain of H20. That is probably close enough not to matter.

The advantage as I understand it is when using longer/heavier bullets in the 260, you need to seat them farther into the case, eating up some powder space, particularly if you are loading to magazine length for a gas gun. If you are shooting a bolt gun, it doesn't matter as much.

6.5 it is kind of a sweet spot, the Swedes figured that out in 1894.

If someone wanted, or could only afford, one rifle to do everything, the .264 bores are a pretty good option. The Creedmore doesn't really give anything up over the 6.5 Swede or .260. but can shoot the long, heavy-for-caliber bullets in a short action, which the others cannot (at all for the Swede, or well for the .260, depending on the rifle). You can use it for hunting anything from ground squirrels to elk, and with the good match bullets available, you can use it for LR target shooting. A quick look at midway for Ammo shows 49 options for the CM, 20 options in .260, which is not that much better than the Swede at 17 options.

There are certainly others that can do the same thing, but generally with more recoil. Hell, I did with a .308 when I was young and broke.

For the record, I don't own a 6.5 CM, but am a fan of the 6.5 in the Swede, Arisaka, and in my LR rig, 6.5-06.

 

[Ben Dover]

If someone wanted, or could only afford, one rifle to do everything, the .264 bores are a pretty good option.

Absolutely correct. OTOH, so are the .257, 277,284, .308, .311, .323 etc

Karamojo Bell used a 6.5 Swede quite a bit, but a 7X57 even more.

 

[Charlie98]

Jeepers... I just bought my first .30-30 last year, I guess I'm about 100 years too late for that fad.

I was going through all my gun magazines last weekend, culling out the ones I was going to keep and tossing the rest... magazines largely from the '80's and '90's. I was struck by the fanfare of the New and Improved guns and cartridges ballyhooed back then, many of which have come and gone since then. Back then, the 7mm was king... now it's the 6.5mm. In 2025 it will be something else.

As one poster said... the 6.5CM is a good cartridge, but is not much different than most other 6.5/.270 cartridges, simply a refinement. I've shot one... it's fun to shoot, and it's accurate enough to make you feel like a hero. I was actually surprised to see Springfield kick the M1a out in 6.5CM... interesting indeed... and probably a reason to think it will be around for a while. I really thought the 6.5 Grendel/6.8SPC was going to make a bigger splash than they did, I think both of those are excellent cartridges, too.

 

[std7mag]

Thats just it.
The ONLY thing a CM does that the 260 won't is fit a long heavy match bullet in an AR10 magazine. (I had someone b×××× me out saying that the Grendel was made for AR's, not the CM).

I'm not saying the CM is a bad cartridge. But when someone looks for advice on a 270, or 308 invariable someone will chime in with CM.

And the guys i've seen with a CM are the same guys at the range with their AR that don't know it shoots more than 25 yards.

It's a mentality thing, and there are other cartridges out there.

As i've said, i'll stick to building my 6.5mm Rem Mag.
Unless a 6.5-06 catches my eye.

 

[MarkCO]

I understand the draw to the 6.5 'Magnum' stuff, but it's not for me.

Of all the current 6.5 bandwagon cartridges, I think I'd go for the underdog: .260 Rem. Not as high strung. Easier on brass and barrels. And half the idiots at the range still don't know what it is, even when they do instantly recognize 6.5 Creedmoor.

Love my .260Rem. 15 years old and still going with about 8K on the barrel (has been cut and set-back 2 times). I'll probably have a new barrel spun up for it towards the end of next year.

 

[gwpercle]

The old original 6.5X55 Swede is still the best one of the bunch in my opinion.

My first choice also !

 

[CalmerThanYou]

You guys are going to blow a gasket when dudes start touting the 224 Valkyrie.

 

[Ben Dover]

I'm still waiting for the .17/300 RUM!

 

[hooligan1]

So in the Handloading section, Rebs has a thread 6.5 Creedmoor brass, if you get to the end you will see a target I posted of an 11 rnd group I shot with a #2 Contour Sporter barrel @ 100 yds.
Fellas with a Sporter barrel. If you shoot an accurate one you would dig it too....

 

[MarkCO]

You guys are going to blow a gasket when dudes start touting the 224 Valkyrie.

Already have one. VERY niche IMHO. It will get some general use, but really it won't do much more that can't be done with 5.56 pressures in a .223 Wylde chamber out to about 600. Not many people shoot AR15s past 300 or so.

 

[std7mag]

Hooligan,

Nice, but then again about what Wendyj does with her 7mm-08.

 

[Archie]

I am mildly amused by the 6.5 Creedmore and the 6.5 Grendel, like they're brand new ideas.

I have currently a 6.5x52mm Carcano (1891), a 6.5x53Rmm Mannlicher (1895), a 6.5x55mm (Swede) (1894) and a 6.5x54mm Mannlicher-Schonauer (MS) (1903). The dates shown are the date adopted by a nation; it follows the cartridge was designed at an earlier date. All were originally loaded with a 160 grain (probably 10.1 grams in metric) bullet.

All of them are adequate to dispatch enemies of the realm at ranges out to four hundred meters and possibly more. (Limitation is due to the iron sights of the day and the rather unsophisticated powers in use at the turn of the last Century. Modern powders will add another couple of hundred fps if desired.)

It should be noted all of these cartridges have some problems which have rendered them 'obsolete' in military service. The Swede has a bolt size slightly larger than the rather common Mauser head (7mm, 8mm and most sporting rifle rounds) and the U. S. .30-06 and .308 Winchester (7.62x51 if you please) head size. The 6.5x53Rmm has a rimmed case and is likely not suitable for 'modern guns'. The MS round is just a bit smaller than the Mauser and U. S. 30/7.62mm caliber case heads. The 6.5 Carcano round is similar in head size to the MS. None of these cartridges can be readily adapted to the AR 10 or AR 15 actions without specific tooling and machining.

The only 'modern' cartridge other than the CM or the Grendel is the .260 Remington. Many shooters tend to show the hex removal hand sign when mentioned. With modern powders and a 'strong' action, it should shoot much better than any of the others. The only real competitor would be the CM (also based on the .308 case).

It depends on what one wants. For target shooting with a semi-automatic rifle, one has a choice of Grendel, CM or Remington. For long range shooting (including target) exclude the Grendel.

Likely, the long range bullet is probably along the lines of the 147 grain spitzer boat tail with a fair level of sectional density and a heap of ballistic coefficient.

If a hunter, either the CM or the Remington will develop ample power for most anything in the contiguous forty-eight states. (I'd be leery about big bears.) My choice is either a Swede (which I have in sporting trim) or the MS round (upon which I am working.)

To be politically correct, take a sampling of what is most popular in your circle.

 

[std7mag]

Or stick to the original. 6.5X57 Mauser, circa 1890.
No one alive knows the reasoning as to why this was not chosen for use by any military, and so has remained a commercial round in Europe.

As you said, with modern strongr action/barrel and modern powders, performance can be upgraded.

 

[HiBC]

Have fun doing what ever makes you happy. Guns are like that.

We have the STW and RUM crowd. Big boiler,small bore ...overbore,no compromize max fps rounds. Have fun. Its just not my cup of tea.

Then there are folks who see a unique cartridge brass,such as the .375 Ruger,as an opportunity to create children. Neck it up,neck it down...Why not? I've found the processes of making children entertaining,if expensive.

A problem with the 7mm STW was bulletsover 140 gr needed to be deep seated due to mag length.I chose the 30-338 over the 300 Win mag for about .150 more room in amag for long bullets.

The marketing of "Bigger and faster is better" is growing somecracks a shooters evolve. The "3900 fps" with a BC of a potato chip 100 gf bullet is not winning out over the 2850 fps 140 gr javelin.

There is nothing at all magic about a 6.5 bullet. 6mm,7mm,277,...so what,really.

The old 6.5 mm 160 gr bullet went hand in hand with tight twist barrels.1 in 9,1 in 8,etc.

Folks lookes at 1 in 10 twist .270's,and it seemed the 1 in 9 twist 6.5 06 did not quite deliver the fps.

Then there are the bullet mfgr's. They build bullets to the rifles and market.

Not many .257 or 348 1000 yd bullets.

Some folks consider what they want to do. Bigger and fater don't matter.

A guy might build a 6.5 Grendel on a 7.62x39 CZ donor for his Granddaughter.

Its all good.

The folks who like the 250 Savage,7x57.257 Roberts,6.5x55....they know why a 6.5 CM might be a great choice.

But I,myself,would not suggest a .257 R or a 6.5 CM Shooter wore a manbun.

More like the guy with the 6.5 RUM carries an IWB sweet potato at 12 oclock.