Snake shot pistol caliber??

bamaranger

New member
rats

I can't recall shooting a snake with .22 shot. But I've shot quite a few rats. The load was the crimped W-W .22lr with likely #12 shot.

We got an infestation of the vermin in my shed/kennel and bamaboy and myself decided we'd do a bit of night hunting. Light, ear-pro and safety glasses. Set up in the shed with a .22 rifle and a light, one shooter and a light man. We'd take turns shooting. The results were less than positive. We killed a couple outright, but most just squirmed and ran off. I doubt we shot further than 12 ft at any of them. So, we switched to a S&W .44 Mtn Gun with reloads using the CCI shot caps and #7-1/2 shot and a load of Unique. Too much Unique it proved.

First instance, my turn to shoot, we heard a rat scampering along a board against the exterior wall. We were in the shed door. 'Boy hit the light and I got on the critter and touched one off. Dead rat, but the shot penetrated the galvanized tin wall and sailed out over the kennel. High enough it did not hit any of my beagles in their runs outside, but clearly the load was far more powerful than I thought it would be. We went back to the single shot rifle and .22 and after about a week of shooting after supper, that with trapping, our rat problem was solved.

We continue to have rodent problems now and again, and I keep a pair of box traps set to deal with the varmints. When I catch one, I dispatch it with a Ruger Bearcat and the old W-W .22lr crimped shell, point blank. It doesn't tear up my traps, doesn't ricochet off the gravel drive....result is a dead rat, but the load is far from devastating, even at distances measured in in a couple of feet.

We have snakes as well. I've lost count of the Timber Rattlers we've killed around the house, somewhere near a dozen I'd guess, and about half that many Copperheads. Sorry, but I am not going to handle a venomous snake. The tool for that task has been either a .410 single barrel, or a shovel, depending on which is closer. Last one I killed was IN THE PEN with my old Golden Retriever. The big male Lab in the adjacent run was going nuts, he'd gotten ahold of the critter and shook it so hard the rattles had come off, I found them the next morning. How either one of them did not get bit, I'll never know.

I'm not the kind of guy that will roll the truck over trying to run down a snake. I've let lots of them alone when out and about in the boonies, but if a venomous one turns up around the place or someplace else we frequent, it gets wacked.
 

Jim Watson

New member
Like Will Rogers, all I know is what I used to read in the gunzines.
Mike Venturino favored a .45 LC and no 12. He thought lots of little bitty holes more effective than a thin pattern of larger shot.

On the other hand, a coworker who lives on a slough with water moccasin population did not fool around, first check before outdoor activity was with a pump shotgun.
 

tlm225

New member
I meant the 38 would be useful for larger predators when loaded with slugs. I know the shot wouldn't be effective on them. I was thinking of split loading the revolver first two snake shot and the rest slugs.
Thanks for responding
That is how I carry mine in the woods, two shot loads followed by LSWC or LSWCHP.
 

44 AMP

Staff
22 shot shells use #12 shot, which is called "dust shot" for a reason.

People call it "dust" but its actually not, its #12 shot. There is (or was) a smaller size that was actually named "Dust" and an even smaller shot size named "Fine Dust".

A point about .22 shotshells, the kind with the folded brass crimp almost never function in a semi auto and require hand cycling. They do fine in revolvers though.

The point to .22LR shot is for the snake (or other vermin) which is virtually at your feet. Larger shot is needed for effectiveness at greater range, and bigger bores do better.

My test is a cardboard box, a corrugated cardboard box and a soda can. If the shot goes through a soda can, it can kill your dog. If it only punches through one side of the can, it still can injure and possibly kill your dog.

If it goes through a cardboard box (like a cereal box) but not through a corrugated (double layer wall) cardboard box, it likely won't kill your dog, but might break the skin or put an eye out.

Another point about shotgun shells, and light walls, at close range, the WAD might punch through (or at least into) the wall, even if the fine shot doesn't.

I have no personal love for snakes, but if its well outside striking distance, you don't have to shoot it. Though you may want to, they do move, after all..:rolleyes:
 

highpower3006

New member
I live in South West Tennessee and I know what you mean about Cottonmouths. They get a notion that you are on their territory and they will chase after you. When I am out and about working around my property, I carry a 4" S&W 586 loaded with snake shot. I have had to use it a couple of times and it did the job just fine.

If I am just out hiking in more remote areas I usually load the first two chambers with shot and the next four with 158 grain hollow points. I used to carry my 4" Model 29 loaded the same way when I lived in Northern Nevada. I finally had to quit carrying the M29 when full power .44 mag recoil got to be too much for the arthritis in my hands and wrists (I'm 71). In reality, if a poisonous reptile is close enough to be a danger to you, it is close enough for .357 snake shot to be effective.

Rattlesnakes are usually not as aggressive as Cottonmouths or Water Moccasins and have the advantage of letting you know if you are too close to them. Mostly they will allow you to move away unless they are molting and then they tend to be a bit short tempered.

I am not snake phobic and have zero issues with non verminous snakes. Any poisonous snake that gets near my house dies.
 

FrankenMauser

New member
I've done a lot of stupid reloading experimentation. I think .44 Mag is the best option for "snake shot". The CCI/Speer shot capsule loads are fine for snakes at close range (close enough to guarantee a good hit, but far enough away to still be safe from ricochet or a strike by the snake).

You might could talk me into settling for .38/.357 with capsules, if only to be used for snakes.

Equal what?
Even a 2.5" .410 carries 1/2 ounce of shot and a 3" .410 has 3/4oz.
Ive never seen a .45 Colt that comes close to that.
I load modified .30-40 Krag and .303 British cases with 1/2 oz of shot for .44 Mag.
Job done with any .44 Mag revolver. No need for a rifle or massive blunderbuss like a Judge/Governor.

They may not be an attractive option to everyone, but they work much better than CCI/Speer capsule loads and toss just as much lead as a 2.5" .410.


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Both of those case heads facing the camera are from the same lot of brass and were thinned to the same thickness. Remington quality at its finest. :rolleyes:

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No, the bottleneck is not an issue.
No, over-shot cards don't really help. They tend to blow the pattern even worse than rifling does naturally. They also don't stand up to handling as well as 4-6 coats of nail polish (which is primarily nitrocellulose and the residue adhered to the case typically burns off when fired).

.30-30 forms a usable parent for doing this for .41 Mag, but it makes a pretty ugly cartridge.
.444 Marlin can be used for .45 Colt, but the case taper makes your nitro card well under bore size -- more so than the other options mentioned.
 

dogtown tom

New member
MarkCO
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogtown tom View Post
Equal what?
Even a 2.5" .410 carries 1/2 ounce of shot and a 3" .410 has 3/4oz.
Ive never seen a .45 Colt that comes close to that.
Equal a .410 load. Piece of cake.

I have a .41 Mag load that is 5/8 ounce and a .45 Colt load that is 3/4 ounce.
How are you loading 3/4 ounce of snake shot in a .45 Colt case?
 

MarkCO

New member
How are you loading 3/4 ounce of snake shot in a .45 Colt case?
.022" wall thickness tube. Drop in powder, a shot card then about 120 grains of #12 shot, slip in the tube to OAL of 1.60". Fill tube to top, tap it down, top it off and then 4 layers of fingernail polish.
 

MarkCO

New member
.30-30 forms a usable parent for doing this for .41 Mag, but it makes a pretty ugly cartridge.

Darn it, I might have to try this. I had been using .414 SuperMag cases that I basically sized down the last 0.35" to .400 OD with a 10mm die and lots of lube.
 

FrankenMauser

New member
Fire-forming will be required the first time with .30-30, of course.
After 4-8 firings, depending on how hard you're pushing it, you'll need to size the 'neck' with a .40 S&W die.
I have to borrow my brother's .41 Mag die for my .44 'necks'.

Somewhere here, years ago, I explained my loads. But the important points to hit are:
I use a nitro card and fiber cushion wad because they did best in my testing.
Don't use fingernail polish, if you're cutting styrofoam egg carton wads. Toluene and acetone vapor from the fingernail polish can eat the wads.
 
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bamaranger

New member
wow!

Now THAT is interesting. The .303-44 Brit "Snake Smiter"

".....and men shall smite you, and you shall strike at their heel" Gen 3:15
 

camsdaddy

New member
I want to get some 38 shot shells. I have had some in 22lr in a NAA and it was terribly disappointing. I have had good luck just using wadcutters in my 642 for the times I've needed them.
 

FrankenMauser

New member
One of my brothers was tasked with eliminating rodents and pigeons from storage sheds and barns for a previous job.
They provided .22 shot shells. They were ineffective enough that he eventually convinced the employer to let him use .22 BB cap ammo. He just had to watch for ricochets inside the buildings. :eek:
 

Drm50

New member
I have a lot of experience “ not shooting snakes”. Everytime this comes up guys are shooting snakes at 25’ with shot loads. I hunted Rattlesnakes & Copperheads to sell hides. I can tell you that the snake you see is one you can avoid. Any shot load for handgun is only good on snakes at point blank range. They are useful to use at that range in buildings and such where you can’t use a bullet. Besides not having enough shot to throw a killing pattern they don’t have much velocity and pinwheel pattern.
There are several 410 single shot pistols on the market if expense is the issue, revolver if not.
 

TruthTellers

New member
I have a lot of experience “ not shooting snakes”. Everytime this comes up guys are shooting snakes at 25’ with shot loads. I hunted Rattlesnakes & Copperheads to sell hides. I can tell you that the snake you see is one you can avoid. Any shot load for handgun is only good on snakes at point blank range. They are useful to use at that range in buildings and such where you can’t use a bullet. Besides not having enough shot to throw a killing pattern they don’t have much velocity and pinwheel pattern.
There are several 410 single shot pistols on the market if expense is the issue, revolver if not.
If you're talking about the Cobray/Leinad ones, yeah, they are cheap if they can be found. The prices on them have gone up, but there is a potential advantage to them as one I had barely had any rifling and by that I mean not the length of the rifling, I'm talking depth of the grooves. The grooves looked more like a faint shadow and if I had measured a slug it probably would have been less than .001 deep.

I assume it helps improve the shot patterns. I wouldn't know, I only ever shot 000 Buck from mine when I had it.

They're such cheap pistols that I could see people hand reaming the rifling out to tighten the patterns.
 

ernie8

New member
The above photo reminds me of another snake load I have for my .357 Bandit rifle [ 350 legend ] . The old TC Contender 357 mag shot loads had capsules like those . Loaded for my rifle , they will hand chamber for the first shot . So when pig hunting I can have a snake shot ready for the first shot , then regular ammo in the mag . Also it is wrong to say that snake shot in pistols does not work well or just up close . If I have a rattlesnake near my cabin and the dogs are around , I do not avoid that snake . If you load them right a 44 / 45 pistol is plenty deadly at 15 ft . As I stated before , I load 44 capsules in a 45 Colt with 6 or 4 shot . Just one of those big shots will kill a snake or brake it's neck . Also I do not have a " pinwheel " pattern as my load does not spin , and at 1000 fps it is not underpowered . So if you know how to do it right [ my way or the guys with cut down rifle cases ] pistols work fine .
 
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