Small Pox Vaccines...Yes or No

[Mike Irwin]

Labgrade,

With the fall of the Soviet Union and the emergence of their scientists as "hired guns," I'm not willing to bet that the Russians can account for all of their nasty buggies...

 

[Brett Bellmore]

Last I heard, between the discovery of a stock of the vaccine sitting in a freezer somewhere, and tests indicating that it could be substantially dilluted and still be effective, we have enough vaccine to vaccinate everybody. Supply is NOT a limiting factor.

The vaccine is mostly a danger to people with compromised immune systems, the elderly, transplant patients on immune suppressors, and AIDS sufferers. However, it's possible to extract immune gobulin(SP?) from people who've been recently vaccinated, and use it in conjunction with the vaccine to safely vaccinate even the immune compromised.

No way in heck could this be done in 5 days, though. Waiting until the outbreak and THEN trying to vaccinate everyone is roughly equivalent to their strategy of leaving the pilots defenseless, and shooting down any hijacked planes; It GUARANTEES massive casualties! Even if you didn't vaccinate the vulnerable population, people who've been vaccinated shed the virus for a while, and are capable of infecting other people with the weakened strain; A mass vaccination program conducted on a rush basis would certainly result in tens of thousands of agonizing deaths. I suppose it WOULD tend to solve the AIDS problem, though.

 

[Gewehr98]

I got a hell of a scar to show for my first smallpox vaccinations...

As a leetle tyke back in the mid-60's. Then just a couple years ago I got the anthrax series of shots. Just no more Gamma Globulin shots, please, and I'll stay outta the Nepa Hut, I promise! (OUCH!)

 

[Selfdfenz]

It is my understanding there is enough material on hand to vaccinate everyone in the country and it will immunize.

This stuff was made by private companies. Their azz would be in a major sling if the stuff contained anything BUT the vaccine strain, especially after the questions that have been raised concerning the Salk vaccine.

It just seems to me that immunizing some, many, most of the people in the US, or letting us decide to get the shots on our own takes this potential weapon out of the hands of the BGs.

I got my 1st SP shot in the 50's and I can almost still see the scar.
I have heard there is still likely some protection from those shots but I wouldn't want to stake my life on the possibility my B cells remember the original insult.


S-

 

[Byron Quick]

IIRC, most plagues take off, due to the unsanitary conditions. Similiar to the AIDS/HIV epidemics.

You are comparing apples and oranges.

Plague is a bacterium. You are correct in assuming that proper sanitation gives some measure of protection against the bubonic bacterium. But, by no means, does it give complete protection. For example, the normal transmission vector for plague is rodent to flea to human. However, if the plague converts to the pulmonary form, all bets are off. The vector is then directly from human to human. Even in the absence of the pulmonary form, do you really want to bet your life that you can avoid all fleas? Are you going to kill all your pets?

The smallpox pox virus? You can be as clean as possible. Sterilize your sheets. Mop with boiling water. Sterilize your dinnerware. Spray DDT in layers on your property. The smallpox virus won't care. Not to say that boiling your sheets and dinnerware would not kill the virus...it just would not do enough to prevent infection.

This is the downside of not getting vaccinated to avoid the vanishingly small probability of serious reactions. Out of each ten of your family members, nine will become infected. Three of the nine will die. Six will live. (Remember this is the AVERAGE, if you're not lucky, your entire family might die) So your post smallpox epidemic family will look like this: There will be seven family members where there were once ten. Of the seven, six will have horrible and permanent scarring over their entire bodies...including their faces.

So, you're going to take your family and retreat into the mountain or desert to avoid the epidemic. Got a problem, guy. HIV virus dies in minutes in the open air. Hepatitis can survive for hours. Smallpox virii will survive for years or decades. You're going to be totally isolated in the mountain or desert for a very long time to be safe. In fact, children born there will be adults before they can safely meet outsiders. I hope you don't have problems with inbreeding.

Check out the probability of a serious reaction with the vaccination. Compare it with the infection and fatality rates for small pox. Make up your own mind as to the greater risk.

Now, personally, I don't think the government is being totally honest with us. Several weeks ago, I walked into the trauma room in the emergency department where I work. There was a new addition...a 3'X3' poster with color pictures taking you step by step in both the diagnosis of smallpox and the differentiation between smallpox and other poxes such as chickenpox. The conclusion I have drawn from this is: 1)either the government is playing CYA in the extremely unlikely event of a smallpox attack or 2) the government has received reliable intelligence pointing to the possibility of such an attack and is concealing it to protect "nation intelligence means and methods."

In view of the chaos in Russia during the past 13 years, I'm not willing to discount the second possibility. Are you willing to bet your life and the lives of your loved ones? Because that is exactly what you could be doing.

The CDC currently believes that the smallpox vaccination confers immunity for about ten years.

 

[Byron Quick]

Which "Chicken Littles" are you referencing? The ones pro or the ones con?

 

[Byron Quick]

Buddy,

You can do what you want. Some folks think that everyone is entitled to their opinions. And that's true. However, I prefer informed opinions. Jackson Browne has an opinion about environmental policy. I prefer the opinion of ecologists with PhD's.
I'm a RN. I prefer the opinion of medical professionals. (By the way, it's inoculations.)

 

[Byron Quick]

Jackson Brown is a great musician! I like him a lot!

I agree. And I'm willing to listen to whatever he has to say about music, songwriting, or a career as a musician. I am not willing to consider seriously his views on the environment.

Once again, I'll take the professionals.

 

[Ed Dixon]

I was vaccinated three times as a young child and it never took, no small scar on my arm as most people of a certain age have. Anybody else have this experience? I was never sure if this meant I have a natural immunity or how rare this was.

 

[Mike Irwin]

You may be right, Don.

In fact, people calling for inoculations sound a LOT like the chicken littles calling for CCWs in those states that currently don't issue them.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Oh, by the way, according to CDC, there are an average of 13 cases of Bubonic Plague reported in the United States every year, centering mainly in the South West.

The treated death rate is about 15% worldwide, if I'm reading the page correctly. I would assume that it's MUCH higher for the pneumococcal version.

From the 13th Century straight to you, it's the Black Death!

 

[mons-meg]

Don't laugh. Plague vaccine is part of the normal battery of inoculations for troops going overseas. (Edit: at least back in '91) As a reward for going to Kuwait, my government has immunized me from the black death.

Now where's that time machine so I can go back to the 1400s...

 

[Mike Irwin]

It's all about protection.

The level of protection at which someone feels safe.

If someone feels safer carrying a handgun, they're no different that someone who feels safer with a current smallpox inoculation.

Just because YOU don't feel the danger doesn't mean that someone else doesn't.