Single-Stack Subcompact DA/SA in 9mm?

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Cosmodragoon

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Ever since guns like the Walther PPS and Shield came onto the market, I've been waiting for their DA/SA counterparts. I know this style of action has fallen out of favor but it still has a big following worldwide. I'm not talking about chunky double-stack subcompacts like the CZ Rami. I'm talking about thin single-stack subcompacts.

The closest thing I've seen so far is the Springfield XDE. Something is better than nothing but I just don't feel enthusiastic about this one. Reviews seem mediocre. The trigger could be better. Like so many other people, I hate the "grip zone". The next complaint might be controversial but I really don't like having a manual safety on DA/SA guns. Decockers are fine. Manual safeties seem totally unnecessary with a DA/SA system and they absolutely are something that can go wrong in a defensive encounter.

So tell me the XDE isn't the only game in town. What other guns could scratch this itch?
 
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sigarms228

New member
Springfield XD-E is only current production DA/SA hammer fired pistol I am aware of that is as thin as a Shield, PPS, etc but it is also taller. IMO there is not near enough market demand for such DA/SA pistols. If the XD-E was a run away best seller like the SIG P365 I am sure other manufacturers would take notice but it is not, not even close.
 
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sigarms228

New member
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

None of these are anywhere near as thin and light as an M&P Shield.
 
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Cosmodragoon

New member
Springfield XD-E is only current production DA/SA hammer fired pistol I am aware of that is as thin as a Shield, PPS, etc but it is also taller. IMO there is not near enough market demand for such DA/SA pistols. If the XD-E was a run away best seller like the SIG P365 I am sure other manufacturers would take notice but it is not, not even close.
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I wonder how much of that is because of how Springfield did it?

As you can see, I'm exactly the demographic who is clamoring for this type of product. Yet, I am thoroughly unimpressed here. It's sort of like getting lost in the desert and being totally parched. You find a cooler in the shade of a large rock and get excited. You lift the lid and behold, a hot can of Tab.
 
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sigarms228

New member
Cosmodragoon said:
I wonder how much of that is because of how Springfield did it?

As you can see, I'm exactly the demographic who is clamoring for this type of product. Yet, I am thoroughly unimpressed here. It's sort of like getting lost in the desert and being totally parched. You find a cooler in the shade of a large rock and get excited. You lift the lid and behold, a hot can of Tab.
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LOL!

Not sure exactly what the reasons are. I would not mind having a quality thin, compact, and light poly frame DA/SA hammer fired myself but it would have to be done right and not necessarily to make a price point in a very competitive market which is a big problem in itself. If HK made one I would be all over it.
 
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OhioGuy

New member
I'd buy one too. I also find the XD-E pretty bland but perfectly usable. It's not a big seller even against Springfield's other offerings. I won't hold my breath for another like it. Striker single stacks with higher capacities are gonna win the day.
 
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Cosmodragoon

New member
The striker guns might be more popular and I imagine they cost less to manufacture. Still, I think there are a bunch of us who would buy a quality answer to this hole in the market.

If I saw a nice DA/SA in the size and weight range of the PPS or Shield, I would be all over it. I'd prefer "decocker only" but I could make room if the overall product were good enough. I want a hammer but I've got an open mind. For instance, a PPS with the P99's trigger system would be sweet.
 
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stinkeypete

New member
I want a Makarov, but have you seen the prices? I want a .380 Mak, to make it worse.

I also want a Walther CCP m2, which is a gas-assist Makarov with improved takedown ergonomics over the CCP. I don’t see how it can’t be a tack driver.

While we are talking blowback systems, somehow the Bersa Thunder is better shooting than the PPK. I used to own both. I never did figure out how the cheap copy was just somehow undefinable better for me and everyone that tried them both side by side. I sold em.

So when I get around to it I plan on shooting the Glock 42, shield ez and the baby Walther... nothing wrong with .380.

The sad answer is “Just get the 43x. You will be assimilated”

Or do we just bite the bullet and get the Sig?
 
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sigarms228

New member
JN01 said:
A M&P Shield isn't anywhere near a DA/SA autoloader which is what the OP wants.
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Yes, he wants one similar in size including thinness, weight, and capacity to a Shield. Yet people continue to post DA/SA pistols that are not close to that.
 
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Cosmodragoon

New member
I might be looking for something that doesn't exist yet. DA/SA was the prevailing style for a long time and continues to be in some parts of the world. Some of the historical guns discussed so far come from those parts of the world. Of course, those guns are not in the intended caliber. In many of those places, our 9mm may be banned for civilian use and gun rights in general may be heavily restricted.

Here in the United States, where our dedicated efforts have protected or even restored rights in many places, we've got the best civilian firearms market in the world. On the heels of the polymer and striker revolutions, we've seen concealed carry driving the trends responsible for guns like the PPS, Shield, etc. I could be wrong but it seems like a lot of the current DA/SA designs are coming from those other places. The confluence of these factors are probably preventing the pursuit of what I'm looking for here. For instance, getting something really good in this category would probably require a company like Walther, Beretta, HK, CZ, Grand Power, (etc.) to buck the trend and invest in developing it for sale in the States.
 
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Cyanide971

New member
Cosmodragon, definitely not the specific caliber you asked about, but I myself have been switching back and forth between my Sig P230 (w/Hogue rubber grips) and Bersa Thunder 380 Combat over the last several months. Concerning capacity I definitely prefer the Bersa since I have a pair of the stock 8-rd mags and an extended 9-rounder, but I also love the slick slide of the Sig with only the decocker and disassembly lever on the frame in spite of it only being a 7+1 (pair of spare mags with it also).

I also love how they both give more grip purchase than what I experienced with either my Shield, Glock 43, or XDS-9, all of which were eventually sold off. I know they aren’t a popular choice because of caliber, but in no way do I feel undergunned with either of them on my side.
 
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cslinger

New member
I prefer DA/SA but the mechanics of it dictate a larger firearm. Striker fired guns are able to be packaged in smaller formats.

Just food for thought. Where does size become a game of diminishing returns. I personally find most all small autos small enough for say pocket carry still either print like a GUN or are a bitch to draw from pocket vs say a JFrame.

If you are going to use a holster why not go up to something allowing for a more fighting grip, control.
 
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JDBerg

New member
The CZ 2075 RAMI ( the “B” is the safety model, the “BD” is the decocker model) is close to what you’re looking for except it’s alloy framed with a double stack mag. The RAMI P version with a polymer frame went out of production a few years back, and some of those had bulges in the frame. The RAMI B I tried out was a good shooting little pistol!
 
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Cosmodragoon

New member
I've owned and carried DA/SA guns in .380 and .32 acp. I've liked some of them very much. I just want a little more oomph in a defensive firearm. The smallest gun I carry these days is an LCR 327. It's a six-shooter that offers decent power and has reasonable recoil. In most pants, it rides well in a pocket holster and draws nicely.

The problem is that sometimes, in some outfits, it doesn't. There are times when I want a small single-stack 9mm for other carry methods. I had been flirting with a Sig P239 for years and just never closed the deal. I thought about the Sphinx Subcompact too... The problem is that having these compact inch-wide polymer nines on the market makes me want a slimmer DA/SA. Darn it! If Springfield can do the crap version, can't another company make the good version?
 
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lee n. field

New member
Cosmodragoon said:
Ever since guns like the Walther PPS and Shield came onto the market, I've been waiting for their DA/SA counterparts. I know this style of action has fallen out of favor but it still has a big following worldwide. I'm not talking about chunky double-stack subcompacts like the CZ Rami. I'm talking about thin single-stack subcompacts.

The closest thing I've seen so far is the Springfield XDE. Something is better than nothing but I just don't feel enthusiastic about this one.
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I shot one once. It was "meh" to me, like another Makarov. Will stick with my XDS-s.

Reviews seem mediocre. The trigger could be better. Like so many other people, I hate the "gripe zone".
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Talon grip wrap. Done.

And more recent ones have dropped the verbiage. Look at the 3.8" and 4.5" XDEs. No "gripe zone".

The next complaint might be controversial but I really don't like having a manual safety on DA/SA guns. Decockers are fine. Manual safeties seem totally unnecessary with a DA/SA system and they absolutely are something that can go wrong in a defensive encounter.
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The XDE safety decocks. If you want to run it that way, you can. It also allows folks that want to do cocked-and-locked to do so.

So tell me the XDE isn't the only game in town. What other guns could scratch this itch?
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Taurus?
 
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Cosmodragoon

New member
... And more recent ones have dropped the verbiage. Look at the 3.8" and 4.5" XDEs. No "gripe zone"...
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That is a step in the right direction. I'll keep an eye out to see if it disappears from the smallest version.

The XDE safety decocks. If you want to run it that way, you can. It also allows folks that want to do cocked-and-locked to do so.
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Yes. The XDE uses a two-direction switch like the FNX series. Some people see that choice as a good thing. My main problem with manual safeties is that they are there at all. It's not just an academic concern. There have been actual cases in which defensive encounters were lost due to fiddling with a safety under less than ideal conditions.

The quick answer is usually "just keep the safety off" but how easy is it to accidentally bump on under rough conditions? Looking at video reviews, the XDE looks more susceptible to that than the FNX but I'd have to get one in my hand to see. A key thing about defensive encounters is that you really can't control a lot of the variables. So you have to control the ones you can. Not having features like manual safeties and magazine disconnects, or having guns be easily convertible to "decocker only" (like the PX4), is one way to do that.
 
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