Silencerco now offering trusts
- Thread starter Coach Z
- Start date
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
You can use an LLC; but in Texas anyway, they have several drawbacks.
1) You have to pay a filing fee of $300 to the state on top of any legal fees
2) Your Articles of Incorporation are a matter of public record and are accessible online (along with your address unless you pay more money annually for a Registered Agent).
3) You have to report sales tax quarterly and franchise tax annually, even if you have no income. Failing to report this in a timely manner results in fines and eventually dissolution of the LLC.
So if you already have an LLC and have to do this anyway, it can be an option. It is usually less than ideal for individuals compared to a trust though.
1) You have to pay a filing fee of $300 to the state on top of any legal fees
2) Your Articles of Incorporation are a matter of public record and are accessible online (along with your address unless you pay more money annually for a Registered Agent).
3) You have to report sales tax quarterly and franchise tax annually, even if you have no income. Failing to report this in a timely manner results in fines and eventually dissolution of the LLC.
So if you already have an LLC and have to do this anyway, it can be an option. It is usually less than ideal for individuals compared to a trust though.
Bart, I formed an LLC in TX last fall and I recall the fee to the Sec of State being $750, plus 2% for the convenience of using my AMEX, plus a dollar to check to see whether it conflicted with any other names. At every turn, TX seemed to have its figurative hand outstretched.
Some states have a substantial fee of one sort or another each year.
Ohio's SOS only charges $125 to file the articles, but they like to semi-randomly impute sales if you don't file a sales tax return, then attach your assets for the tax deficiency.
SFWUSC, LLCs are really set up for doing business. It will not typically be a money saver over a trust.
Some states have a substantial fee of one sort or another each year.
Ohio's SOS only charges $125 to file the articles, but they like to semi-randomly impute sales if you don't file a sales tax return, then attach your assets for the tax deficiency.
SFWUSC, LLCs are really set up for doing business. It will not typically be a money saver over a trust.
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
Zukiphile, I'm guessing you formed a PLLC or PC? That's a $750 fee. The fee for an LLC, C-Corp or S-Corp is $300 still (unless you filed as a foreign entity).
TMO, in Texas, you could have had a lawyer draft a trust for you for $21 more than you paid for the SilencerCo trust. So even at a minimum, assuming the Silencerco trust was every bit as good for you as a low-end lawyer trust - you'd have a licensed attorney you could ask questions and get advice from for an extra $21.
TMO, in Texas, you could have had a lawyer draft a trust for you for $21 more than you paid for the SilencerCo trust. So even at a minimum, assuming the Silencerco trust was every bit as good for you as a low-end lawyer trust - you'd have a licensed attorney you could ask questions and get advice from for an extra $21.
Just to add to the pile of those offering to setup trusts:
http://www.lawshieldtrust.com/
The only do this for a limited number of states currently.
http://www.lawshieldtrust.com/
The only do this for a limited number of states currently.
CodeSection
New member
Just quickly read about the lawshieldtrust terms. It appears there are many items of this "plan". For me, their agreement or "contract" is confusing.
However, paragraph IV Legal Services and Benefits, paragraph E is very clear.....
"The Legal Service Contract Holder may obtain future legal services for the purpose of obtaining BATFE approval for the procurement of additional N.F.A. Items, after the rendering of the initial legal services provided for herein, for an additional fee."
So, their $299 charge appears to be just the "base charge" if you have anymore NFA items or possibly if you have a more complex situation like setting up an irrevocable trust, etc.
IMO, you get what you pay for. You may not realize it now until something occurs....maybe your death....maybe a family member delivering your NFA item to you that you failed to include as a beneficiary or trustee of your trust gets stopped by a LEO.....maybe when/if you become incapacitated....maybe there might be a need to remove or add a trustee...etc.
Don't be fooled, be informed. Bart has written great information. Some will accept and learn from the information presented, some will not accept it and will lean toward what is the initial cheapest process. That is the beauty of choice and accountability of one's own action.
I believe when people are recommending on using an attorney, they are doing so to help, not trying to support a profession. I believe they recognize the serious legal consequences that could occur with a poorly written trust.
But what do I know.......
However, paragraph IV Legal Services and Benefits, paragraph E is very clear.....
"The Legal Service Contract Holder may obtain future legal services for the purpose of obtaining BATFE approval for the procurement of additional N.F.A. Items, after the rendering of the initial legal services provided for herein, for an additional fee."
So, their $299 charge appears to be just the "base charge" if you have anymore NFA items or possibly if you have a more complex situation like setting up an irrevocable trust, etc.
IMO, you get what you pay for. You may not realize it now until something occurs....maybe your death....maybe a family member delivering your NFA item to you that you failed to include as a beneficiary or trustee of your trust gets stopped by a LEO.....maybe when/if you become incapacitated....maybe there might be a need to remove or add a trustee...etc.
Don't be fooled, be informed. Bart has written great information. Some will accept and learn from the information presented, some will not accept it and will lean toward what is the initial cheapest process. That is the beauty of choice and accountability of one's own action.
I believe when people are recommending on using an attorney, they are doing so to help, not trying to support a profession. I believe they recognize the serious legal consequences that could occur with a poorly written trust.
But what do I know.......
Can't speak for other low cost trusts but the one I got from the silencer shop has provisions for a benificary and the attachment to add additional trustees. As far as being stopped by LE, you only need a copy of the tax stamp not the trust for proof that the nfa item is legal. In all honesty the only and I mean only reason I got a trust in the first place is because of the reduced wait times for approval. When I'm dead and buried my nfa items are the least of my problems. They could be used for tire irons for all I care.
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
TMD said:
Just FYI: All trusts have beneficiaries and trustees. If a trust is going to have multiple trustees, it should also have some way to resolve disagreements between trustees without going to court written into it.
And with those goals, if you are single and the sole trustee, a form trust can work just fine for you as well as save you money. You might even get by with a generic $30 Quicken trust that says nothing about guns or NFA if you know enough to fill it out correctly.
sfwusc said:
I'm not aware of any state that charges annual filing fees. The annual charges I mentioned were to hire a Registered Agent. This person acts as your public representative. Some people prefer to do that rather than have their name and home address on a publicly available document.
I'm not up on my South Carolina state law; but in most states you don't need to file or register a trust, so the fee is $0. The fees being discussed here are the fees paid to a lawyer to draft a legally binding trust document. Since you would need to do the same thing with an LLC (or write your own Articles of Incorporation or buy a legal form book and use that form), the $110 is in addition to the legal fees - not in place of.
Also, in most states, a trust isn't a matter of public record, which can be nice when dealing with items that are popular with thieves like firearms and accessories. And you don't have to fill out all the business-related forms and additional tax paperwork with a trust.
Again, I don't practice in South Carolina and know nothing about South Carolina law; but I'd be surprised if an LLC was either a better or cheaper option there.
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Bart said:
Something I see routinely are laymen who submit the articles for an LLC (the application or in some states the charter) that gives the state basic information about the LLC, like the address for the statutory agent, but who never sign an operating agreement.
I've spoken with clients who would purport to own an LLC but who are completely unaware of what an operating agreement is.
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