sig 220 questions

[meat]

Hello. I recently purchased a Sig 220 (last weekend) and like it very much. I do have a few question regarding the Sig that I hope you can answer. Hopefully this message wont be to long. Sorry in advance.

First, I like to clean my guns thoroughly after shooting them. I didn't know if you had any suggestions for cleaning the area around and inside the magazine well. With the Glock ( I own 2 glocks), it is very easy to get down in there and clean out all of the powder residue. However, with the Sig there are quite a few areas in there where I can't get some of the gunk out (the mag release lever, trigger mechanism, etc) and it's a little more difficult to clean. Since I'm not an armorer and have no idea how to take the gun apart (and I'm a little afraid of doing that), how can I clean down there and get the gunk out?

Second, I notice that after shooting and cleaning the barrel, some of the bluing has worn off of it, is this normal?

Third, I noticed that the single action pull of this gun seems a little on the heavy side (about 8-9 pounds). Will it reduce w/ time after shooting it regularly? Is Sig making the trigger heavier for legal reasons? If not, is there something wrong w/ my Sig 220? If all I need is a trigger job, do you know a reputable Sig gunsmith that can do this?

And finally, A gentleman (and I use this term loosely) at the range told me that Sig's are overpriced junk and that the frame will crack after shooting it alot. Is this true? Apparently this guy is a gunsmith and says that he's seen it happen. I did do a search on TFL about it and it seems that it was something that affected older model Sigs and that they have fixed the problem. Thank you so much in advance and happy shooting.

 

[12GA]

Hello meat. I don't own one myself (yet), but most everything Ive heard about the P220 has been very good. Check out the link below for more about your pistol. Good luck!

SIG Forum

 

[BigD]

Couple of points.

The best way I have found to get down inside my P226 is with Q-Tips & pipecleaners. Ten+ years have passed, and I've not had any issues.

Your trigger will *definitely* improve after several hundred rounds have been cycled through it. I would also recommend picking up a set of snap caps and dry firing the crap out of it. This will also help smooth out the trigger.

That "gentleman" sounds like your typical "know-it-all idjit" that is all too commom in gun shops around the country. It really pisses me off every time I come into contact with these morons. Can you imagine how many new or prospective shooters are turned away, or completely turned off to shooting due to interactions with these "experts"? I'm betting it's more than I care to think about.

Yes, early guns had some issues with fram rails cracking, but this issue was solved years ago. This is another reason why these types get under my skin. The hear about or experience one problem, and latch onto it like a steel trap on a rabbit's leg. You should ask him what he thinks of the Beretta 92 series. Hmmm...by his logic, they're all overpriced pieces of crap because of slide separation issues they had more than a decade ago too.

Face it...that guy is just a dumbass who is best avoided.

 

[JohnK]

Hello Meat,
I've been shooting a Sig 220 for years without any problems (as long as it's kept reasonably clean). The bluing wore off my barrel after just a couple hundred rounds too, several thousand rounds later it's still the same so I'm going to say that's normal.

The single action trigger pull sounds heavy, it's a lot heavier than my old Sig 220. It could be they're just making them heavier today, I'm sure a qualified gunsmith (not the one you talked to) could put in a set of lighter springs easily for you.

I've only heard of frames cracking on older models, but it hasn't happend on mine yet after several thousand rounds. I wouldn't worry about it on your new Sig.

 

[Marmy7451]

P220 lover

Mine aree so old they say Browning BDA on them. The 45 has more than 10000 rounds and the 38 Super has over 30,000. These are still the best pistols I have ever had. They are extremely reliable and accurate and a joy to shoot.

I heard that some of the late models has some cracking problems, but I believe that it was caliber specific to either the 40 or 357 Sig. I so not believe that anything short of highly overpressured loads will damage the 45.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Gun scrubber (or brake cleaner, a much cheaper alternative) and an old toothbrush are your friends for cleaning the mag. well and other tight spots on any gun.

Bluing wear is perfectly normal on a semi-auto. The slide scraping over the barrel during functioning is likely the cause.

In my experience, Sig triggers are EXTREMELY variable, far too variable for such a high-priced gun. It likely with lighten up some, and smooth out, in shooting, but you can have it worked on, too.

Sig frames can crack. The frame of any gun can crack. The guy at your range, however, was a complete and total jackass. The 220 is the finest .45 made today, in my opinion.

 

[notbubba]

meat, it is normal for the blueing to rub off as you shoot one of the best guns made.

For cleaning the nooks and crannies you can take one or both of the grips off and use a Q-tip.

ENJOY!

 

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's Meat & Other's,

First off, I'd like to take a swing at the "gentlemen"; as I
feel that he is talking out of his "rear end", cuz his mouth
should know better.

Meat, I been a Sig fan since mid-summer of 1988; when
I purchased my very first P220. After that, I acquired more
Sig "P-series Classic's; including another P220, a P226,
a P228, and a P229! IMHO, Sig firearms are undoubtedly
the finest combat handgun ever designed. The most
common problem with standard, blued Sig's is that the
finish is marginal. Not known for "hostile environment's"
in some cases, it leaves a lot to be desired. However,
if you (or anyone else) examined my 1995 production
West German P220, you would fine that it is emaculate;
almost as perfect as the day that I bought it. Of course,
I take great care of all my firearm's! My P228 is a 1990
West German model; and it's the same way. A lot depends
on the individual; and how well he/she keeps up their
equipment.

Now, as far as Sig having a few frame cracking problems.
Yes, this did occur; mostly with large metropolitian police
departments that used +P and/or machine gun ammunition
in their Sig's. But, don't worry cuz this problem has been
addressed; and corrected, I might add!

To field strip a Sig P series classic: Make sure the weapon
is UNLOADED! Drop the magazine, and pull the slide to the
rear and engage the slide lock. Now, using your thumb
lower the decocking lever to its downward most position.
Holding the slide, press down on the slide lock and gently
let the slide move forward; until it comes off of the frame.
Turn slide over, use your thumb to remove the recoil spring.
This will allow you to remove the barrel from the frame.
All essential part's are now exposed for cleaning.
Reassemble in reverse order!

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[TMfr]

Correct me if I am in error folks but a friend of mine just bought
Sig P220 and he told me the factory states that they are not rated for Plus P loads. I would imagine this is due at least partially to the aluminum frame. It has been well known for years that over the long run aluminum frames do not stand up as well to reapeated recoil impact as steel frame guns do.

Aluminum frame guns also wear away much, much faster. This has also been my own experiece with them over the years. They were originally designed to save weight and be less costly to produce. They were never originally designed for long extensive shooting as have steel frame guns. Frame cracking may or may not happen but it is far more likely to happen with the aluminum frame handgun than with the steel.

Aluminum frame hanguns also are much more severely damaged when dropped. Steel frame guns are damaged also but almost never to the degree aluminum frame guns are when they are dropped.

Over the years I have had the opportunity to examine aluminum frame hadguns of various makes that have had only standard velocity ammo fired out of them and also aluminum frame guns that have had hot loads fired out of them. In every case the guns that had the hot loads fired out of them had far more extensive frame wear and frame peening than the guns that had only standard velocity loads fired out of them. Comparing aluminum frame wear to steel frame guns that had hot loads fired out of them showed that the steel frame guns held up much better and with much less peening of the frame.

For firing hot loads or for shooting many thousands of rounds the steel frame handgun is always the better choice. Of course in recent years we have seen the advent of the polymer framed pistols and only time will tell how well they hold up over the years.

MY own Sig P220 has held up pretty well over the years but probably only because I was careful to only fire standard velocity ammo out of it and never, ever any hot loads.

My Sig P220 has a super excellent trigger but it was purchased many years ago. I would imagine the new ones have been made lawyer proof and if your trigger is very heavy a trip to the gunsmith will probably be in order because although it will smooth out a little with use do not expect the trigger pull to get all that much lighter.

For the rugged handgun I will go with steel every time or even with polymer, both survive the drop tragedy much better.

The blueing on your barrel will start to wear off from friction and so will the tolerances that are necessary for top notch accuracy. You can help prevent premature wear by greasing all heavy pressure points with a good quality, high temperature grease. Use oil on all other surfaces. I have had good luck with break-free and the super expensive LSA fluid. As a matter of fact LSA is so good you could probably not even need to use any grease but I do so anyway on extreme pressure points like the barrel seat on the barrel muzzel. Using this procedure many of my handguns still have top notch accuracy after firing thousands of rounds of ammo through them. Always , Always clean all the oil and grease out of them after firing them no matter how few rounds you fire. Then regrease and reoil the weapon.

One thing nice about the Sig P220 is that they were usually noted for their extremely good accuracy in .45 acp and the older models had excellent trigger pulls.

Most will handle any configuration of hollow point or soft point ammo.

My own Sig P220 will shoot cast bullets easily all day long into 2 inch groups as 25 yards. Not too shabby for an off the shelf non-customized pistol.

 

[VVG]

Aluminum frame guns also wear away much, much faster. This has also been my own experiece with them over the years.

Here we go again.

When two metals rub against each other, they erode, and at different rates. It is often the case that dissimilar materials last much, much longer than similar materials. So, you're going to show some pictures of worn out aluminum slides, or evidence of such. Give engineers some credit.

There are a number of hard coatings that can be applied to aluminum so that they are extremely hard and resistant to wear in the kind of use they see in a pistol. I suppose M16's are wearing away much, much faster as well?

 

[meat]

Regarding the +P ammo issue, according to the Sig Arms website,

"What types of ammunition can I use in my SIG guns?
Any factory ammunition that is SAAMI approved is suitable for use (Standard and +P). Reloads, +P+, and military surplus ammunition are not recommended."

So there you have it. Stay away from the reloads, +P+, and the military surplus ammunition and all should be fine for the frame. Here's a link to the faq on their site in case anyone is interested in the source: http://www.sigarms.com/customer/faqs.asp?cat=7

 

[9mmepiphany]

i have been shooting and carrying a sig 220 for years without problems. much like the 1911, you need to keep a film of oil/lube on the barrel/hood and rails to insure proper function. the weak links in the 220 are the blueing and the magazines.

the seatbelt of my squad car, wore through the blue on the top of my slide while it rode in my duty holster...i'm considering my options in refinishing after having some custom work done.

the back of the mag lips have a tendency to crack from the presure of the mag spring...it cracks at the back where the sides curve in. there is no real cure, just check and replace as needed.

your trigger does sound a bit heavy. i had a local smith tune my action and now it rivals a good "duty tune" on a DA wheelgun. while he was at it, i had him thin, smooth and round the face or the trigger...it just feels better

 

[blades67]

The best SIG Sauer trigger job I've ever had the pleasure to try was done by the factory for $60.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"Aluminum frame hanguns also are much more severely damaged when dropped."

Not to mention causing horrific collateral damage when the aluminum frames go critical mass and take out 8 or 10 square city blocks...

Care to quantify that, TM?

Are you saying that dropping an aluminum framed handgun 2 milimeters onto a bed of fluffy eider down will cause catastrophic damage?

Or are you saying if I toss my Beretta off the lip of the Grand Canyon it will be damaged worse than an all-steel gun.

It's not good to speak in absolutes.

 

[Zander]

The "wear" you see on the top of a SIG barrel is what us owners refer to as a "smilie".

Perfectly normal and usually shows up as the factory fires proof-loads before the new pistol is shipped to a wholesaler/dealer.

IOW, it will likely be there the first time you lock back the slide on a brand-new SIG...yep, before you take it to the range for its initial session.

Don't give it a second thought; clean and lube the new pistol properly and have at it. Shoot and enjoy your P220...you've made an excellent choice and it will only get better with use.

 

[Redhook]

Blueing wear is normal.

Trigger pull seems heavy. I've heard that Sig will typically perform a trigger job for free if the gun is under a year old. I had to pay for mine and it turned out very nice.

That guy at the range is a hack! I've only got a couple of grand on mine, but I know of guns with a lot more. No problems! Some of the gun rags usually print/reprint a 10,000rd torture test of a Sig 220 about once a year. They seem to rotate on which rag, but all of the results were excellent. No noticable wear or damage. If I can remember right, they claimed that their accuracy groups got better around 8000.

-Red-

 

[caz223]

After you're done field stripping your sig, lube the barrel lugs where they meet the the slide, and the outside of the barrel.
Don't forget to clean and lube the hole in the end of the slide that the barrel goes through.
The tolerances are very tight here, and a little lube goes a long way to KEEP the tolerances tight.
Also, speaking of CRACK...
What was that dude on when he told you about sigs breaking?
I suppose that every glock will kaboom, and every H&K firing pin will break eventually.
I suppose that's the reason he got a hi-point. :barf:

 

[VVG]

SIG P220 10,000 round test. Unlike most 10,000 round tests, this one was rapid fire - at least, firing as fast as a team of guys could load and shoot, stopping only for some repairs, cleaning, and accuracy testing.

SIG P220 10K rapid-fire test

This good ole boy will be really disturbed to hear that the U.S. military has now fielded the SIG P228 as the M11, for lightweight and concealed carry uses. In ordinance departartment testing, they experienced three malfunctions in 15,000 rounds spread across three pistols.

 

[meat]

Thanks fellow 220 fans. I look foward to a long and pleasant experience w/ a great gun.

 

[BrokenArrow]

SIGs did break, and some still do. Sill one of the best guns out there IMO.

Some SIGs cracked between 7-10K rounds in some of the M9 testing; the Berettas did not w the same ammo (but look what happened to them later). They passed cuzz they were only scored to 5K to pass.

Baltimore county PD found cracks on 52 of their 1400 P226s in Oct 99; Elizabeth NJ PD on 30 of their 350 P226s. Probably older guns.

Jim Pledger, former FBI/FTU, told me it was not unusual for a SIG to crack during a new agent's 5000 rounds in the academy (std ammo, not +P+). Have heard the same from DEA guys about their SIGs when they had em as std issue. And some rental ranges. Know of a new P228 that did it, an older P220 w over 65,000 rounds through it that may never do it...

In the Shooting Times mag article/10K test, the P220 did break a trigger pin IIRC? Some people have had probs w trigger springs too. Nothing is perfect all the time; ask NYPD about some of their Glock 19s.

But it's a lot rarer than it was (changes were made), doesn't seem to be an issue w the newer models, especially the milled ss slide models w solid slide pins, and isn't worth worrying about as much as some do anyway. They still work reliably, accuracy suffers a bit, but still more than good enough to save your life. SIG will take care of ya if it should happen.