Should a pistol be aimed or pointed?

[Pep in CA]

A rifle is definitely aimed. I think that is generally agreed upon. A shotgun, by contrast, is pointed, not aimed. I think that too is generally agreed upon.

So where does a pistol fit in that spectrum?

Personally, I've had the idea that a pistol should be aimed, but recently I've tended to think otherwise. An article I read suggested that, when in a defensive encounter, one will naturally focus on the target, not the front sight of the weapon. I've never been in such an encounter and I hope I never will, but the argument seems to make sense.

What do you think?

 

[TXAZ]

Aimed if you want to hit the target.
Pointed if you want to make the news.

 

[Pep in CA]

Aimed if you want to hit the target.
Pointed if you want to make the news.

A good skeet or trap shooter does not aim, and in a defensive encounter with pistols, the targets are likely moving. Do you really think that when someone is shooting at you or moving, you'll take the time to make proper aim?

 

[Cheapshooter]

^^^
Like the post previous to yours, some mistakenly think so though. Or play around with switches, or buttons and look for little dots they may or may not see under such stressful situations.
For the normal range that a SD event takes place instinct shooting is not only better, but in most cases the only option.

 

[1stmar]

If your question is “should be” not “would be”, the answer is aimed. This is a matter of discipline. If you practice sufficiently the difference is negligible depending on the distance as is the level of “aiming”. At 5 yds i can hit a chest size target with good accuracy with a much looser sight picture than at 10 yds or 25 yds. But i am still aiming. That takes time to develop.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...Personally, I've had the idea that a pistol should be aimed, but recently I've tended to think otherwise. An article I read suggested that, when in a defensive encounter, one will naturally focus on the target, not the front sight of the weapon. I've never been in such an encounter and I hope I never will, but the argument seems to make sense. ....

First, "natural" isn't always the best idea. If one's car is skidding the natural response is to step on the break, and that is absolutely the wrong thing to do. A large part of training is to learn to overcome one's natural tendency to do the wrong thing and to instead learn to reflexively (without conscious thought) do what will produce the desired result.

Second, it shouldn't be a matter of one or the other. Using the sights and point shooting techniques each have their uses. With training and practice, and sights you can see, it's amazing how quickly you can shoot accurately with a flash sight picture. But at very close distances point shooting techniques, if one is proficient at them, and be useful.

Jeff Cooper, together with others who formed the Southwest Pistol League continued to experiment with, and test ways of using handguns for effective defense. What evolved through that process was The Modern Technique of the Pistol (as codified, with Jeff Cooper's blessing, by Greg Morrison in The Modern Technique of the Pistol, Gunsite Press, 1991)

One of the cornerstones of the Modern Technique is the flash sight picture.

Here's how the flash sight picture works (Morrison, Gregory, The Modern Technique of the Pistol, Gunsite Press, 1991, pp 87 - 88, emphasis added):

...The flash sight-picture involves a glimpse of the sight-picture sufficient to confirm alignment....The target shooter’s gaze at the front sight has proven inappropriate for the bulk of pistol fighting. However, the practical shooter must start at this level and work up to the flash, which becomes reflexive as motor skills are refined. With practice, a consistent firing platform and firing stroke align the sights effortlessly. This index to the target eventually becomes an instantaneous confirmation of the sight-picture.

...Using the flash sight-picture programs the reflex of aligning the weapon’s sights with the target instantly....There is good reason for sights: one needs them to align the barrel with the target reliably....

When I took my first class at Gunsite in 2002 the doctrine was, as it had been for years, The Modern Technique. Jeff Cooper was the Range Master (chief instructor) for the class, and we were taught to use our sights with a flash sight picture. I can guarantee that when we are doing our drills at Gunsite (including two shots from the holster into the target center of mass at 7 yards in 1.5 seconds or less, while moving off the line) we are looking at our front sights.

 

[Pep in CA]

Jeff Cooper, together with others who formed the Southwest Pistol League continued to experiment with, and test ways of using handguns for effective defense. What evolved through that process was The Modern Technique of the Pistol (as codified, with Jeff Cooper's blessing, by Greg Morrison in The Modern Technique of the Pistol, Gunsite Press, 1991)

I wonder if Jeff Cooper and others who formed the Southwest Pistol League, and Greg Morrison, have ever been involved in an actual handgun defensive situation.
If so, I offer my apologies in advance.

 

[HiBC]

I'm thinking you might study up some on Jeff Cooper.
The answer would be "Yes"

 

[Scoits]

Both

 

[kozak6]

It's a question of doctrine.

There is such a thing as point shooting a pistol. But it's difficult and takes a lot of practice.

A more modern technique might be more useful.

I wonder if Jeff Cooper and others who formed the Southwest Pistol League, and Greg Morrison, have ever been involved in an actual handgun defensive situation.

Only during WWII and the Korean War.

 

[Cheapshooter]

The flash sight-picture involves a glimpse of the sight-picture sufficient to confirm alignment....The target shooter’s gaze at the front sight has proven inappropriate for the bulk of pistol fighting. However, the practical shooter must start at this level and work up to the flash, which becomes reflexive as motor skills are refined. With practice, a consistent firing platform and firing stroke align the sights effortlessly. This index to the target eventually becomes an instantaneous confirmation of the sight-picture.

Pretty much another way of saying "instinct" shooting.

 

[Lohman446]

You should be using some sight picture and you should, in reduced speed drills, practice that sight picture. If, while practicing at "full" speed, you remember the sight picture you are concentrating too much on it.

Kind of.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

To answer the question, yes, you can use sights in defensive combat with handguns. There are at least a dozen written accounts of people successfully focusing on the front sight in actual combat with handguns. I’ve done it myself in force on force so it is quite obviously possible for some not insignificant number of human beings to accomplish this.

The key though is to use whatever method allows you to reliably index the pistol to the target and make good hits. I’ve found that training to use the sights religiously also has the benefit of building very consistent muscle memory should you need to point instead.

 

[NoSecondBest]

For speed shooting with open sights, the shooter need only see the front sight to make a good shot at ranges up to approx. ten yards. You can practice this yourself to confirm this. If you DO NOT look at the rear sight you will almost always shoot consistently high, but you will group. With practice you can shoot fast, accurately, and will learn to adjust your POA to account for shooting high. Don't take my word for any of this. Take your gun out and try it. Just look at the front sight and put it on the target. No focus or anything, just aware of where the front sight is. Put it on center mass and pull the trigger. I think you'll be surprised at how well this works. This may be something like "flash" shooting as mentioned above. Without doing this and just instinctively shooting, you'll mostly shoot low when the adrenalin is pumping.

 

[44 AMP]

A shotgun, by contrast, is pointed, not aimed. I think that too is generally agreed upon.

I don't agree. Its one of the oldest and biggest lies about shotguns, that they aren't aimed, just pointed, in order to hit the target.

If you don't aim, you won't hit your target.

A good skeet or trap shooter does not aim,

They absolutely DO aim!!! That's what the bead is for.

The difficulty in discussing the matter, and where people who aren't shooters get mislead, is that the aiming of a shotgun doesn't use the same kind of sights as rifles and pistols. It's still aiming,

Yes, it seems like nothing more than pointing, but think about it, it IS aiming.

Trouble is, many people hear "pointing" and think they can disregard aiming.

Maybe you define it differently, but for me, when you sight down the barrel, whether there is a bead, a front & rear sight, or no sight but the plane of the barrel, its aiming. What varies is the degree of difficulty, speed, and precision but its all aiming.

Pointing is what you do when you can't see the barrel, such as shooting a handgun from the hip.

Of course, there are experts who use the term "pointing" to mean anytime one is not fully and properly utilizing the sights. So it can be rather confusing.

As others have mentioned, the majority of people who have been in gunfights, and got hits, say they "saw" the front sight, and used it to aim with. Not the careful, precise lining up of front sight, rear sight and target, just a "flash picture" of the front sight on their target, and firing.

this is something that can be tested with a simple laser pointer (or a laser boresight, etc.) Fasten a laser pointer so its in line with the barrel. EMPTY GUN!!! EMPTY GUN!!! and, did I mention EMPTY GUN!!!?...

use a sheet of paper on the wall as your target. Present (point) the gun at the target, (laser off) without looking at the sights at all. Look only at the target. point your gun, then "freeze" in place (this is the toughest part, keeping the gun where you pointed it) then turn on the laser and see where the dot is, compared to your target.

Do this a few times. Then do the same thing, but look at the front sight when you aim. When your front sight is on that target, look where the laser dot is, its also on the target.

My 'point" here is that if you can see the muzzle (front sight or bead) you ARE aiming (whether you realize it, or not). If you can't, you are pointing.

Pointing can get hits at very close range. Aiming, even a "flash" aim gets more & better hits than pointing.

I'm sure others will disagree with my use of terms, but that's the way I see it.

 

[Pep in CA]

Good comment 44 AMP and others.

Here is my current dilemma and the reason I started this thread: The outdoor public range where I practice has metal targets at 35, 50, and 100 yds. and paper target holders at 7 yds. I've been mostly doing slow fire practice at 7 yds, aiming at a 2 inch target, but I don't currently see that as practical in an actual gunfight.

The targets at 35 yds and beyond of course require precise aim, but I'm thinking I should be able to keep shots on paper at 7 yds. without precise aim. Not necessarily shooting from the hip, but also not focusing so much on the front sight.

In other words, if I can hit an 8.5 by 11 inch piece of paper at 7 yds. without taking the time to properly aim, that would be a practical defensive skill I wish to have.

Good idea or no? Comments welcome.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

There is a general belief that by firing first, you win a gunfight; but that’s not true. It isn’t even true that the first hit wins. Let’s say you are the vat-grown clone of Jelly Bryce and you shoot me through the heart with a 0.36 second draw. Even with a glacial 2 second draw, I’ve still got plenty of time left in my now very short life to shoot back. The first one of us to hit the upper central nervous system stops that fight, though we may both still lose.

So, to sacrifice some degree of accuracy for speed generally seems like a bad idea to me.

However, if you want to incorporate drawing from the holster (whether aimed, instinctive, etc.) and your current range facilities don’t allow it, take a look at threads here on setting up a laser range using laser training cartridges. This is a great and economical alternative, especially when combined with a timer. This is also a good way to work on movement and if you are at handgun distances with no cover, you’ll be wanting to move.

 

[Don Fischer]

I am not a big time handgun shooter but do have a few I like to shoot now and then. I have four DA revolver's with 6" barrel's and an auto handgun in 22 LR. My carry weapon is a Shield 9 mm c. How anyone could aim one is beyond me. I don't think I'd ever shoot at someone with it unless they were within maybe 20' of me. I practice some and all I ever do is point at target's about the size of a water melon; I hit it the vast majority of the time. I cannot imagine finding the time to aim in a situation like that. My DA's and my 22 LR handgun, I always aim, even though my eyes don't work so good anymore! I have figured out how to keep it in order by slowing down on shooting. They say the eye can only focus on one object at a time. At the distance my front sight is form my eye it doesn't focus very well anymore. Kind of tricky but usually I can get the sight's lined up with both out of focus if I take my time. In defense the target is a whole lot closer and I point!

 

[Don Fischer]

I don't agree. Its one of the oldest and biggest lies about shotguns, that they aren't aimed, just pointed, in order to hit the target.

If you don't aim, you won't hit your target.


They absolutely DO aim!!! That's what the bead is for.

The difficulty in discussing the matter, and where people who aren't shooters get mislead, is that the aiming of a shotgun doesn't use the same kind of sights as rifles and pistols. It's still aiming,

Yes, it seems like nothing more than pointing, but think about it, it IS aiming.

Trouble is, many people hear "pointing" and think they can disregard aiming.

Maybe you define it differently, but for me, when you sight down the barrel, whether there is a bead, a front & rear sight, or no sight but the plane of the barrel, its aiming. What varies is the degree of difficulty, speed, and precision but its all aiming.

Pointing is what you do when you can't see the barrel, such as shooting a handgun from the hip.

Of course, there are experts who use the term "pointing" to mean anytime one is not fully and properly utilizing the sights. So it can be rather confusing.

As others have mentioned, the majority of people who have been in gunfights, and got hits, say they "saw" the front sight, and used it to aim with. Not the careful, precise lining up of front sight, rear sight and target, just a "flash picture" of the front sight on their target, and firing.

this is something that can be tested with a simple laser pointer (or a laser boresight, etc.) Fasten a laser pointer so its in line with the barrel. EMPTY GUN!!! EMPTY GUN!!! and, did I mention EMPTY GUN!!!?...

use a sheet of paper on the wall as your target. Present (point) the gun at the target, (laser off) without looking at the sights at all. Look only at the target. point your gun, then "freeze" in place (this is the toughest part, keeping the gun where you pointed it) then turn on the laser and see where the dot is, compared to your target.

Do this a few times. Then do the same thing, but look at the front sight when you aim. When your front sight is on that target, look where the laser dot is, its also on the target.

My 'point" here is that if you can see the muzzle (front sight or bead) you ARE aiming (whether you realize it, or not). If you can't, you are pointing.

Pointing can get hits at very close range. Aiming, even a "flash" aim gets more & better hits than pointing.

I'm sure others will disagree with my use of terms, but that's the way I see it.

I trained dog's for several years and shot a lot of bird's, I always pointed! I seldom ever missed a shot and don't recall ever missing the second shot. Been a long time since I've done that much shotgun shooting and getting back into it. Well I've been aiming and although I do score a hit now and then, now and then is the rule. Working on getting back into pointing! Shot just a bit of skeet. Thing I remember about it was it you took the time to aim, the bird was gone before you could shoot. I recall my first time on station 8 high house. Bird went by so fast I could not get the gun up so I turned around and shot the bird going away. Range master about had a cow!

 

[Skippy]

Aimed if you want to hit the target.
Pointed if you want to make the news.

Hahaha, good one.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk