Should a first time reloader get a progressive

HiBC

New member
It is fair to say there is more than one way to look at it.
On another thread,tactics,maybe,someone referred to "unconscious competence"
There is a progression of learning:Unconscious incompetence,Conscious incompetence,conscious competence,unconscious competence.

Given,incompetence in reloading can have disasterous consequences,

A good case can be made for simplicity.

It is generally accepted that distraction is to be avoided at the loading bench.

If the new loader is trying to learn the process of reloading from a loading manual,the press and die instructions,and youtube,then dealing with one simple issue at a time is quite enough.

Some suggest you can run a progressive as a single stage(Dillon 550).No argument.

Cost,well,you can get a light duty ,entry level press for $40 or so.It WILL do the job for learning the process of reloading.

If you have 1000 .556 military crimped brass,you can stroke your progressive press 1000 times to use a universal decap die to knock the primers out,or,yoy can move over to your single stage press.

A run of 40 rds of big game ammo can be set up and run in a progressive,or knocked out in a single stage.

Its not black and white.I have two single stage presses and a progressive on my bench.I have a powder measure between the two single stage presses.

In press one,I can with one operation size,decap,and prime.It has an auto primer feed.

The powder measure is between presses.I can charge,and stick it in the next press and seat a bullet.

I have slightly twisted the press mounting so the egonomics of stroking the press work out from one seat position..

Take your pick,its not worth a whizzing contest,its a preference.There isn't an absolute right/wrong answer.

IMO,progressive press or not,a single stage press on the bench is always useful.Its not a waste of money.

IMO,an entry level handloader has enough to focus on if he/she has one simple thing at a time to watch and understand.How you get there,even with a Dillon 550,is up to the person spending the money.

IMO,once unconscious competence in basic reloading is achieved,then the progressive process is a next step.

If possible,much of the learning can take place at an experienced reloaders bench without buying any equiptment.
 

BumbleBug

New member
Many good points made in this thread. I believe that anyone that makes a serious DIY decision to start handloading probably is competent enough to master a progressive press. So the real decision becomes your volume needs. If you are a pistol shooter & like shooting your .45 ACP with a quart jar of bullets instead of a box or an AR enthusiast that likes doing mag-dumps with his 5.56, why not get the right equipment up front. But if you are a rifle only kind of guy, the single stage stuff will suit you just fine & would probably have end up being your first choice any way.

FWIW...

...bug
 

BigJimP

New member
I'm way past the "crumugeon" stage in my life....but I don't think there is any reason a new loader cannot learn on a progressive machine - and do it smartly - and well - both short term and long term.

I have no need for a single stage press ....and I've been reloading off and on for over 50 yrs....but a Dillon 650 with a case feeder is a much better press than any single stage out there today....its accurate, a solid investment and will do a large volume if that's what the shooter wants or needs.

I shoot a lot of handgun ammo / even though my competition days are long past me...but I average about 12 boxes a week in a variety of calibers ( 9mm, .40S&W, .45 acp, .38 spl, .357 Mag and .44 mag )...and the Dillon 650 keeps me well stocked. I like to reload / but I like to shoot more ....and I'm much happier with a high quality press that will crank out 15 - 20 boxes and hour, of high quality rounds, in an hour ...than spending half a day doing the same thing.

Its not about speed....its about quality and safe and accurate ammo ...

Like others have said --- you can make a good argument that a single stage has so many steps ( where human hands touch ) ...that a single stage has way more chance of an error ...than a good progressive machine. But dummies can make dangerous - squibs etc...on single stages and on progressives. Reloading requires attention to detail ...knowing and understanding every aspect of your press - and each stage in the reloading process - a good clean bench -- and good clean procedures.

At my local range this past weekend...a newbie reloader blew up a Ruger revolver in .44 mag ...with his reloads ( no one was hurt bad / couple of cuts ) ....but he's a new shooter - and a new loader....using a single stage RCBS press...and he had some squibs ( and he knew he had some --- he said he fired 4 or 5 squibs he said, out of one box ) ....before he blew up the gun / and inspection showed at least one bullet lodged in the barrel...when it blew...

Would he have been in worse shape on a progressive ...yes, probably ....because he had no idea what he was doing / and probably shouldn't be reloading.

But some guys read manuals.....and ask a lot of questions...seek out a mentor to help them...and are careful as they get into reloading / and they don't need a single stage press that's going to give them one box an hour..or even less...
 

Lost Sheep

New member
(Re: Posts 35, 36, 38 and 40)
My apologies, Jim Dandy. I read into your post a slightly different focus than you intended.

Lost Sheep
 

mehavey

New member
....and he had some squibs ( and he knew he had some --- he said he fired
4 or 5 squibs he said, out of one box ) ....before he blew up the gun...

Oh Lord.....

God does protect fools, drunks and little children... but He has to work overtime on occasion.
Merry Christmas.. and God bless us every one. :eek:
 

BuckRub

Moderator
Also think like Nick. I've been reloading for about twenty something rounds and loaded thousands upon thousands. Still got my first RCBS rockchucker As well got another same setup and gave to my son. Progressives may be nice, never seen one, never used one and have no desire to change. Progressives just not for me but I do think everyone should learn the basics before plunging in head first.
 

Overscore

New member
People defend what they have, because they invest too much of their self-judgment in the decisions they've made, so everyone here will be biased, for the most part.

So, the obvious thing to do is get both. :D
 

BuckRub

Moderator
I believe people (most) could have whichever they choose. I believe they have what they have because it fits their needs its how they like to reload.
 

KMAX

New member
I have been loading now for a little over five years. I started on a progressive and had a couple of squibs. Never blew up a gun, but did get a bullet stuck in a barrel. I backed up and started using the progressive in single stage which I liked much better. Then I got a single stage which I use exclusively now. It allows me to inspect each step on each cartridge closely. Maybe I am too obsessive but I do have good ammo!:D The only concern I have is are the primers good.:)
 

Lost Sheep

New member
BuckRub said:
I believe people (most) could have whichever they choose. I believe they have what they have because it fits their needs its how they like to reload.
For years I loaded with a press that did not fit my needs particularly well. I didn't know any better. So, my condition during those years did not agree with your belief.

But there is a happy ending.

A couple of years ago I decided to invest in upgrading my bench such that it was the best (for me) that money could buy.

It took a lot of research and would not have been possible even then if I had not had some experience already behind me.

But now, my condition does fit your belief, as I have a setup that fits my needs and how I like to reload.

Lost Sheep
 

BuckRub

Moderator
Has any Big Competetions are Mr Tubbs are like Camp Perry are anything like ever been one by Reloaders with Progressives ? An honest question that I've never googled. To me, just feel like every step in all areas have to be perfect. And could only be done on a single stage. I don't mean 20 yards with a pistol, I'm meaning 600 yards and beyond. I know all can make those shots but I mean winning in those tournaments. Maybe if I didn't like to reload or had a full auto but maybe its just me but I strive for everything being perfect. Yes there's more to it - trigger pull, breathing, your gun, scope, doping the wind, etc, etc, and etc. But your ammo has got to be perfect too.
 

BuckRub

Moderator
Lost Sheep- yes we all have to start somewhere, In what our friends say to buy or according to our finances are what I found at a garage sale, etc. but after 5-10 years we all upgrade to what we like or feel is best for our personal needs. Whether it be progressive or single.
 

Lost Sheep

New member
Thanks for the reply, Buckrub. And Merry Christmas.

I am a slow learner.:rolleyes: Also stubborn.:mad: It took me nearly 3 decades to perfect my bench.:eek:

But I am happy NOW.:D

Lost Sheep

edit: P.S. Lee Classic Turret, 7 sets of dies in 7 turrets, three autodisk powder measures, RCBS 10-10 scale, Lee dippers, miscellaneous small tools and all this fits in three medium-small toolboxes. A folding workbench and vibratory case cleaner round out the toolkit (Cleaner is a Frankford Arsenal, but I have not developed a brand preference there). The kit fits my needs perfectly. I can take the whole setup to a friend's house and load there if I want, or set up anywhere in the house (over a dropcloth, of course) and load to my heart's content. Setup and teardown take only a few minutes. Zeroing my scale is the most time-consuming part of the process.
 
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BuckRub

Moderator
Love how portable your set up is. Mine on the other hand isn't. And when I cut myself. I bleed " GREEN ".
I could reload with anything or any color. I just started green and never looked back.
And Merry Christmas Lost Sheep. Santas not gonna leave me nothing but a bunch of bills (again):eek:
 
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Flea21

New member
I love my Dillon 550B... I learned on a progressive and am very thankful I did. When I load for precision rifle rounds, I can always use it one stage at a time when I feel like it.
 

mikld

New member
My car/truck analogy was about difficulty in operation not type of vehicle. I was talking about driving, not equipment operation (I'm sure you can see the difference there). Driving Dad's car just like any teen boy would want to do, not operating Dad's work truck. A progressive has it's place but not as a teaching tool. Reloading isn't rocket science, but it needs to be learned correctly, and step by step (half wit bubba can reload his 30-30 easy; jes fill the case wit powder, don't matter what kind, and stuff a bullet in the end and yer done). I hope everyone that tries to learn to reload using a progressive is patient enough to figger what's going on each time the handle is pulled and to keep the hoppers full...
 

dmazur

New member
Lots of good info already stated here, so I'm not sure what I can add.

I don't remember making any real choice of single stage vs. progressive, probably because I didn't know enough about either type to make an informed decision. I got a 550b because it appeared to be well-designed, and relatively simple. I think I got lucky, in other words.

It took me quite a while to get it running correctly, and then a while longer before I ran it in full progressive operation.

Without any advice from others, I decided to run it "one cartridge at a time" until I had faith in the machine and my process.

While I don't believe I have gone far enough to be classified as complacent, I would admit to being "comfortable" with it after 10 years.

I suppose I would agree that perhaps a little more mechanical aptitude and patience is required to run a progressive. I will confess to being an engineer, and I am aware that an analytical approach to things comes naturally to me. However, I have worked with many individuals who find that approach completely foreign if not abhorrent.

Also, while a progressive press may allow a beginner to make mistakes 10 times more quickly than he could on a single-stage press, I'm not convinced that a single-stage press is any guarantee of safety. Sloppy process is dangerous, regardless of the equipment being used.

So, I would agree with those who say a beginner could start with a progressive press, provided due caution is exercised and appropriate time is allowed for setup and "working up the learning curve". If, after consideration, the beginner feels he doesn't have the time for this, then perhaps a single-stage press would be better.

(But I still have reservations about recommending any kind of reloading equipment to someone who says they are in a hurry... :) )
 

Crashbox

New member
I began in late 2009 with a LnL AP progressive and I'm glad I did. I wasn't in a hurry to figure everything out, which helped a lot. I did buy a single-stage press a couple of months later as there are certain tasks much better suited to using a single-stage for.

I say if you have the mechanical inclination and the patience, go for it.
 

totaldla

New member
I see the argument that progressives are too complex. I.e. new reloaders are really stupid and unable to follow directions. I disagree.

I see the argument that progressives allow somebody to replicate mistakes in a hurry. I.e. new reloaders don't pay attention. I disagree.

I see the argument that progressives produce inferior ammo. I.e. every round produced must be sniper-grade accurate or it goes in the dumpster. I disagree.

I just don't see a realistic argument against starting with a progressive.
 
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