Shot size for Home Defense use.
- Thread starter hogdogs
- Start date
+1 mavracer,
I live in the middle of the boonies. LE response time is same as non-existant. Sooo....I figure if they're determined enough to keep coming after the motion sensor lights, burglar alarm, 130lb protective German Shephard and 'the ruler of the roost', a very alert,yappy 15lb pomeranian that will wake the dead if she hears something strange, I figure they are very desperate and will be dealt with accordingly.
Seems we've had a rash of home-invasions around the county where it seems the perps want someone home to assure them of finding their loot of choice. Money(as always) and prescription drugs seem to be the latest loot of choice. On every occasion I know of there have been more than one armed perp.
I live in the middle of the boonies. LE response time is same as non-existant. Sooo....I figure if they're determined enough to keep coming after the motion sensor lights, burglar alarm, 130lb protective German Shephard and 'the ruler of the roost', a very alert,yappy 15lb pomeranian that will wake the dead if she hears something strange, I figure they are very desperate and will be dealt with accordingly.
Seems we've had a rash of home-invasions around the county where it seems the perps want someone home to assure them of finding their loot of choice. Money(as always) and prescription drugs seem to be the latest loot of choice. On every occasion I know of there have been more than one armed perp.
Saltydog235
New member
Reckon you missed the last part of the statement
But don't worry, if I were to need buckshot, I have plenty from 000 to #4 in shells from 2 3/4" to 3 1/2". Heck I picked up a box of 3 1/2" #4's from a gun shop a couple seasons ago. I imagine that'd put a world of hurt on someone if they got in.
I just don't spend a lot of time worrying about shooting bad guys. I'm more apt to run up on a rabid coon, coyote or PO'd hog.
nope but I reckon you missed the point of mine.
but you'll spend time giving bad advice about self defense against humans and even more time arguing about it.lol
I once dang near tore a rabbit in half with a load of 7 1/2 shot from a .410 I'm sure it'd prolly make a nasty flesh wound on something bigger and might detour it. of course I'd imagine most people would be detoured by a bucket of warm cat urine. Still don't suggest leaving a warm bucket of cat urine by the bed.
Saltydog235
New member
So, you'd rather be shot at 20ft by a load of #5 shot than a load of buckshot. Dead is dead, then again you might believe that a .300 Win mag is required to kill a whitetail where as a .243 will do all I need it to.
As far as advice, one could also say that your advice is bad as the projectiles you want to throw around inside of a dwelling pose more of a danger to others within the house who may be on the other side of that partition. Or be more apt to breech an exterior wall/window and present a danger to your neighbors if they were to live in close proximity.
As to self defense against humans, answer this, are more people killed in a year by .22lr or the .50 BMG? Are more people electricuted by 110 or 220? Human life is frail and just like everything else shot placement is key. You do it your way, I'll do it mine. Chances are the bad guy would end up the same way but collateral damage and injury to others won't be as prevelant on my end.
As far as advice, one could also say that your advice is bad as the projectiles you want to throw around inside of a dwelling pose more of a danger to others within the house who may be on the other side of that partition. Or be more apt to breech an exterior wall/window and present a danger to your neighbors if they were to live in close proximity.
As to self defense against humans, answer this, are more people killed in a year by .22lr or the .50 BMG? Are more people electricuted by 110 or 220? Human life is frail and just like everything else shot placement is key. You do it your way, I'll do it mine. Chances are the bad guy would end up the same way but collateral damage and injury to others won't be as prevelant on my end.
Irrelevant... You have to factor in "rounds fired per capita" per caliber or "electrocutions per capita" per voltage... And I am also an electrician so I know both voltages are lethal. But far fewer end consumers come into contact with the electricity leaked from 220 and of those, many just get one side which is still 110v range.
How many hundreds of thousands of .22lr are fired for every hundred rounds of .50 BMG? And you would also factor in the people discharging each size caliber... Predominately the .50 BMG is owned and operated by highly experienced gun owners which cannot be said for the venerable .22lr.
Brent
Man I seen a deer killed by 6 shot at 30 feet. You can never ever say how a shot will effect anything until it is shot.
I use 00 buck in a 3 in mag cause I got a large amount for real cheap like 30 years ago only shot 10 or so shells so far, got a couple hundred.
I also read where a man was shot in the belly by his kids son, he lived but isnt the same.
One pellet in the heart is all it tqakes to die. A bb gun can kill you and I have proof of that many times over. Dont play with these things, just cause it has 7 shot dont make it worthless, it can and will kill ya.
Some day I will tell about the guy shot himself in his eye with a bb gun, I saw the whole thing.....
I use 00 buck in a 3 in mag cause I got a large amount for real cheap like 30 years ago
only shot 10 or so shells so far, got a couple hundred.I also read where a man was shot in the belly by his kids son, he lived but isnt the same.
One pellet in the heart is all it tqakes to die. A bb gun can kill you and I have proof of that many times over. Dont play with these things, just cause it has 7 shot dont make it worthless, it can and will kill ya.
Some day I will tell about the guy shot himself in his eye with a bb gun, I saw the whole thing.....
Saltydog235
New member
The point was that human life just like any living thing can be extinguished by the smallest of things. At 20ft which seems to be the agreed upon interior limit of most shots one would likely encounter inside a residential structure, both loads would have a high component of lethality. One just offers a much less chance of collateral damage.
I for one would rather not kill a bad guy in my home with buckshot and walk into the next room and find that I had also killed my child or wife. Others might disagree but again and for the last time it my personal opinion and a choice I hope to never have to make.
I for one would rather not kill a bad guy in my home with buckshot and walk into the next room and find that I had also killed my child or wife. Others might disagree but again and for the last time it my personal opinion and a choice I hope to never have to make.
Salty, nuttin' you said can be discounted... But on the note of over penetration, the same precautions should be taken whether the round is a beanbag LTL load, a 7 1/2 or any of the buck or slug loads...
Murphy and I are well acquainted and we ain't friends... He is out to get me I swear to god!
My luck, a plastic wad will sail through 2 layers of drywall and strike a loved one killin' them deader than heck... I am certain of this... I am not the luckiest fella and my X-Ray and hospital stay history bears this out.
The whole thing about know your target and what lays behind it is a statement I MUST adhere to with out waiver.
Since I will be following this code of conduct, the 00 and 7 1/2 have exactly equal chance of striking a loved one, NONE. My positioning of myself to deploy lethal force comes before my own safety as this is for the safety of my family...
Brent
Murphy and I are well acquainted and we ain't friends... He is out to get me I swear to god!
My luck, a plastic wad will sail through 2 layers of drywall and strike a loved one killin' them deader than heck... I am certain of this... I am not the luckiest fella and my X-Ray and hospital stay history bears this out.
The whole thing about know your target and what lays behind it is a statement I MUST adhere to with out waiver.
Since I will be following this code of conduct, the 00 and 7 1/2 have exactly equal chance of striking a loved one, NONE. My positioning of myself to deploy lethal force comes before my own safety as this is for the safety of my family...
Brent
I made the mistake of using a hog for an analogy for pellet penetration.
But I think something to bear in mind is that hunting rounds to take down deer or medium game don't necesarily make the optimum HD loading. Nor does LE loadings in all circumstances.
Officers are often firing into vehicles with their shotguns and they need those rounds to bust through windsheilfs, even car doors or hte backs of vehiucles - like through the bed of a pickup, maybe evn go through a car or truck dseat and stiill hit the bad guy.
In HD you don't necesarily need that.
I think the advice from the tactical institute is good - you want the pellets to penetrate to about 14" in ordinance gelatin - which should correlate to adequate penetration in humans to disrupt vital tissue. You want to create as many 12-14" wound channels as possible.
But I think something to bear in mind is that hunting rounds to take down deer or medium game don't necesarily make the optimum HD loading. Nor does LE loadings in all circumstances.
Officers are often firing into vehicles with their shotguns and they need those rounds to bust through windsheilfs, even car doors or hte backs of vehiucles - like through the bed of a pickup, maybe evn go through a car or truck dseat and stiill hit the bad guy.
In HD you don't necesarily need that.
I think the advice from the tactical institute is good - you want the pellets to penetrate to about 14" in ordinance gelatin - which should correlate to adequate penetration in humans to disrupt vital tissue. You want to create as many 12-14" wound channels as possible.
SCBondsman
New member
Have y'all had to point a shotgun at someone or had a shotgun pointed at you?
The look on their face looks like what I imagine mine looks like when I almost step on a snake when fishing, or when I'm duck hunting and come across a herd of psuedorabies infested hogs out for human blood or facing down a brace of deer outta thier minds w- blue tounge craving human brains...
Thanks for the entertainment!
By the way, I like #1 or 00 but will stuff anything handy in in a pinch. Just like with the boat paddle, you gotta do what you gotta do!
The look on their face looks like what I imagine mine looks like when I almost step on a snake when fishing, or when I'm duck hunting and come across a herd of psuedorabies infested hogs out for human blood or facing down a brace of deer outta thier minds w- blue tounge craving human brains...
Thanks for the entertainment!
By the way, I like #1 or 00 but will stuff anything handy in in a pinch. Just like with the boat paddle, you gotta do what you gotta do!
Yes and yes...
In fact as a 14-15 year old, I was shot from 10-12 feet in the face with a 12 gauge wad by an older 19 year old iirc... One thing that was mentioned was that I never looked afraid. I didn't have time before the shot as it was a matter of "Hey Brent..." and when I turned my head to look, I was shot... But after the shot... everyone there said I looked like a rabid dog as I went for my .410 intending to teach the guy how you do it...
Lucky for me, they had hid my ammo before they set up the "harmless" prank...
Brent
no to a shotgun, yes to my ccw
Yes and I was armed. Was very thankful to look over and realize it was an LEO. But that sure didn't make that bbl look any smaller. Also, was a very tense few minutes,standing in my underwear, lowering my weapon as told "veeerrrrry slowly to the ground" while trying to explain who I was.
If I wanted to use a shotgun for defense it would be OO buck .../...but I don't ...
(I'll continute to rely on one of my 1911's and .45 acp 230gr Hydra Shok ammo ) ..../ I live in the suburbs of a big city ...but only me and my wife in the house 99.9% fo the time ....so overpenetration isn't my issue / neighbors housed are 100' or more away from my house on each side ...at the closest...
(I'll continute to rely on one of my 1911's and .45 acp 230gr Hydra Shok ammo ) ..../ I live in the suburbs of a big city ...but only me and my wife in the house 99.9% fo the time ....so overpenetration isn't my issue / neighbors housed are 100' or more away from my house on each side ...at the closest...
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