maillemaker
New member
I think that is correct.
Great idea to check that resource!
Steve
Shot my Colt Walker this weekend.
- Thread starter maillemaker
- Start date
I think that is correct.
Great idea to check that resource!
Steve
I agree...
... with Gary in that this has been an excellent thread. Many of the things we might have "thought" may or may not be true. When I find out I was wrong or had been misinformed in the past, to me it's like discovering the world is round and not flat.
There has been some excellent research done by several members on this topic, well done! Getting to the truth on some of these issues is why I joined this forum in the first place.
Bravo gentlemen!
Birch
... with Gary in that this has been an excellent thread. Many of the things we might have "thought" may or may not be true. When I find out I was wrong or had been misinformed in the past, to me it's like discovering the world is round and not flat.
There has been some excellent research done by several members on this topic, well done! Getting to the truth on some of these issues is why I joined this forum in the first place.
Bravo gentlemen!
Birch
Several things:
shooting horses- generally attributed to Samuel Walker who discussed his desire for a revolver "half as long as your arm"and effective against horses. The theme continued in Mexico Surgeon/Adjutant R.I.P Ford reported a "greenie" putting himself afoot when he accidentally shot his horse between the eyes.]
Citation for both: Whittington, Lt. Col. Robert D. III. The Colt Whitneyville-Walker Pistol. Hooks, TX: Brownlee Books, 1984.
Horse pistol and "Holster" pistol are pretty much interchangeable because of the practice of mounting a pair of pistols on saddle holsters.
velocities derived from Uberti replica. The revolver in the picture is original
The camera is UNMANNED. sitting on a tripod with the shot released when the led speed picked up.
shooting horses- generally attributed to Samuel Walker who discussed his desire for a revolver "half as long as your arm"and effective against horses. The theme continued in Mexico Surgeon/Adjutant R.I.P Ford reported a "greenie" putting himself afoot when he accidentally shot his horse between the eyes.]
Citation for both: Whittington, Lt. Col. Robert D. III. The Colt Whitneyville-Walker Pistol. Hooks, TX: Brownlee Books, 1984.
Horse pistol and "Holster" pistol are pretty much interchangeable because of the practice of mounting a pair of pistols on saddle holsters.
velocities derived from Uberti replica. The revolver in the picture is original
The camera is UNMANNED. sitting on a tripod with the shot released when the led speed picked up.
Attachments
maillemaker
New member
Thanks for the citations!
Sadly this is a $100-$300 book on Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Colt-Whitneyville-Walker-Pistol-Associated/dp/0961304901
Do you have this book? Can you scan/photograph the relevant passages?
I am going to look into this book on inter-library loan.
Steve
A friend has that book but it 's been several years since I read it. Among the items in it are the original accoutrements that were ordered with the walkers since to vera cruz- bullet moulds, pig lead and "sporting powder. I distinctly recall the part about Ford advising the green troop to uncap his revolver and the subsequent killing of the horse. Also assertions by ford that the revolver was as powerful as the 54 caliber whitney-built rifle-demonstratively untrue.
If the friend hasn't sold the book on e-bay \ a distinct possibility given the going price, I;ll see if he's willing to find the passages admitting that I Might have gotten the long as your arm and horse killing thing elsewhere as it is often repeated.
If the friend hasn't sold the book on e-bay \ a distinct possibility given the going price, I;ll see if he's willing to find the passages admitting that I Might have gotten the long as your arm and horse killing thing elsewhere as it is often repeated.
maillemaker
New member
I have requested the book via interlibrary loan to my local library. Hopefully they will be able to find it.
Once I have it, assuming it fits on my flatbed scanner, I will scan it.
Steve
Once I have it, assuming it fits on my flatbed scanner, I will scan it.
Steve
maillemaker
New member
The full copy will be for myself. I can distribute select portions with citation under fair use.
Steve
Steve
The guy stil has the book. here's what he found:
"That statement isn't in the Whitneyville Walker book--it may be in one of my other Colt books. I think it is in A History of the Colt Revolver from 1836 to 1940 by Haven and Belden--It has correspondence between Walker and Colt."So, it may be historical and it may be a low and crawley literary factoid constructed from the apparently factual stories about dead horses -including the long range kill that made Ford say that it has the power or more power than the Mississippi rifle.
"That statement isn't in the Whitneyville Walker book--it may be in one of my other Colt books. I think it is in A History of the Colt Revolver from 1836 to 1940 by Haven and Belden--It has correspondence between Walker and Colt."So, it may be historical and it may be a low and crawley literary factoid constructed from the apparently factual stories about dead horses -including the long range kill that made Ford say that it has the power or more power than the Mississippi rifle.
maillemaker
New member
http://www.amazon.com/History-Revolver-Patent-Manufacturing-Company/dp/0517011697
This book is cheaper ($35) but since I'm already doing inter-libarary loan I just added it to my request.
Steve
This book is cheaper ($35) but since I'm already doing inter-libarary loan I just added it to my request.
Steve
Wilson's , Colt, An American Legend reproduces the introductory letters between Walker and Colt in NYC but doesn't go into further design elements other than to say they designed the revolver together. I read somewhere that they fell to quibbling about details and colt transfered his affections to Jack Hayes by the time the revolvers were shipped.
maillemaker
New member
So today I got to the range with a workup of loads for my Uberti Colt Walker. I think this might be my new skirmish revolver. If only it wasn't so darn heavy!
I worked up loads using 30, 35, 40, and 45 grains 3F Shuetzen, using cream of wheat as a filler. I got the best groupings I've gotten out of any of my black powder revolvers.
I accidentally loaded one of my 40 grain loads with 5 35 grain loads so I did not shoot it on the 35 grain course of fire, hence only 5 shots in that target. But it made a fantastic group.
It's hard to tell it from the picture, but on the 45 grain target there are 3 shots in one hole and 2 shots in another hole.
http://i.imgur.com/aYAQNM5.jpg
This was shooting off of a bench.
I'm going to make up some more cartridges in the 35-45 grain range and try it again to see which one consistently makes the best group.
I love shooting the Walker. It gets a lot of attention on the range.
Steve
I worked up loads using 30, 35, 40, and 45 grains 3F Shuetzen, using cream of wheat as a filler. I got the best groupings I've gotten out of any of my black powder revolvers.
I accidentally loaded one of my 40 grain loads with 5 35 grain loads so I did not shoot it on the 35 grain course of fire, hence only 5 shots in that target. But it made a fantastic group.
It's hard to tell it from the picture, but on the 45 grain target there are 3 shots in one hole and 2 shots in another hole.
http://i.imgur.com/aYAQNM5.jpg
This was shooting off of a bench.
I'm going to make up some more cartridges in the 35-45 grain range and try it again to see which one consistently makes the best group.
I love shooting the Walker. It gets a lot of attention on the range.
Steve
digression
Pattersons came first. about 4x the parts as found on the later revolvers. Amazingly, the two I have haven't suffered any parts breakage. They are reasonably shootable
I believe Uberti has discontinued these while Pietta may still be making them. They are far from the best recreational shooters but are interesting in movies depictin the period.
Pattersons came first. about 4x the parts as found on the later revolvers. Amazingly, the two I have haven't suffered any parts breakage. They are reasonably shootable
I believe Uberti has discontinued these while Pietta may still be making them. They are far from the best recreational shooters but are interesting in movies depictin the period.
Attachments
Chestnut Forge
New member
Had my walker at the range today to try out my paper cartridges. Made from tea bags. They worked great. One of the guys I shoot with shoots a lot of handgun competition. Sunday is practice day and goof off day. We like to call it hecklers corner. He has all of us shooting at the edge of playing cards at 25 feet. Handed him the walker today and he cut 2 cards in 3 shots. I think my new sight is working just fine.
maillemaker
New member
I have received the book A History of the Colt Revolver from 1836 to 1940 by Haven and Belden from the Library.
I have read through all of the author's chapters up to the 1860 and there is no mention of the design requirements of the Walker. However, I have not yet read any of the correspondence that is included later in the book.
Steve
I have read through all of the author's chapters up to the 1860 and there is no mention of the design requirements of the Walker. However, I have not yet read any of the correspondence that is included later in the book.
Steve
Gaucho Gringo
New member
The US Navy and the US Army were both buying revolvers from Colt in the 1850-60 time frame. The navy bought .36 cal 1851's, the army bought .45 cal Walkers, Dragoons and 1860's. They were both bought to kill your opponent. The navy thought that .36 was enough to do the job as proved by the early gunfighters. The army insisted on buying .45. The army might of thought the .45 would be more effective at a longer range as opposed to the shorter range of a naval battle at the time. Or it could have been thinking of larger than man size targets. Think about it, it is a lot easier to hit the horse than its rider on a moving horse and especially so when you are mounted and moving also. It might have been something that people of that era just took for granted and assumed everyone else thought the same way too. It is not uncommon in human history to forget what was common knowledge to our ancestors.
maillemaker
New member
It's all well and good to speculate but the assertion that is commonly made, as in the Uberti web site video and on the wikipedia page for the Walker, is that Samuel Walker specifically made a requirement to Samuel Colt that the Walker be capable of shooting horses.
So far, I've not been able to substantiate that claim.
I still very much believe that people have misunderstood the term "horse pistol" to mean it was for shooting horses. In fact, it was to be carried and used on horse. Other kinds of pistols are referred to as "belt pistols" and clearly these are for being carried on the belt not for shooting belts.
Others were known as "pocket pistols" and these were for being carried in pockets not for shooting them.
I have not yet encountered any real specifics from Walker concerning the design of the Walker revolver, other than some ergonomic issues concerning the sights and the grip.
It is my belief currently that Colt wanted to make as large a revolver as practically possible that could perform nearly as well as a rifle or carbine and have multi-shot capability.
An officer commenting on the Walker said it was as good as a rifle and better than a musket at 100 yards. At 60 grains of powder, it had the same service charge as later .58 rifled muskets would use. I think this is what Colt was trying to accomplish.
Steve
So far, I've not been able to substantiate that claim.
I still very much believe that people have misunderstood the term "horse pistol" to mean it was for shooting horses. In fact, it was to be carried and used on horse. Other kinds of pistols are referred to as "belt pistols" and clearly these are for being carried on the belt not for shooting belts.
Others were known as "pocket pistols" and these were for being carried in pockets not for shooting them. I have not yet encountered any real specifics from Walker concerning the design of the Walker revolver, other than some ergonomic issues concerning the sights and the grip.
It is my belief currently that Colt wanted to make as large a revolver as practically possible that could perform nearly as well as a rifle or carbine and have multi-shot capability.
An officer commenting on the Walker said it was as good as a rifle and better than a musket at 100 yards. At 60 grains of powder, it had the same service charge as later .58 rifled muskets would use. I think this is what Colt was trying to accomplish.
Steve