Short sight radius & accuracy

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Moloch

New member
Hey guys,

quick question, I'm planning on building a really handy and rugged ''bush'' rifle, this includes cutting the barrel of the surplus rifle back to 18''.
Now my question: is the remaining sight radius going to be long enough for good accuracy at reasonable ranges (100-150yds)? Its not going to be a range toy but I'd like to hunt with it one day.

The sight radius on the cut barrel would be approx 15 1/2 inches and I'm going to upgrade the rear leaf sight with a MOJO aperture sight.

Does anyone have experience with shooting rifles with short sight radius?
 
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Art Eatman

Staff in Memoriam
People hit stuff all the time with the lousy buckhorn sight on a 94--which has a fairly short sight radius. Your idea of the aperture sight will be a significant improvement. Yeah, I'd not worry about 150 yards...
 
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trg42wraglefragle

New member
If people can make 100 yard shots with a pistol, which they can, then you will be sweet.

My Remington 597 sight radius would be about the same and shooting a 2 and 4" target at 50 yards is easy.
 
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HiBC

New member
Beginning with the leaf open sight you have:A riflemaking mentor I had for muzzle loaders,showed me his method to locate the rear sight;slide the sight forward on the barrel till the sight picture comes into focus.

That might mean a 15 in sight radius on a 34 in barrel. The precise sight picture pays off.

Handgun silhouette shooters with 10 to 14 in bbls hit targets at longer ranges.

No experience with Mojo peep.I suspect a peep works better looking through it than at it...a peep more than a few inches from my eye may not work well for me.
 
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Sure Shot Mc Gee

New member
I used a short barred rifle for a couple of years when Stalking deer. (Win 30-30 Trapper) I found it difficult having to used its open barrel sights in a hurried shot situation. How I over came that problem. I simply aimed the rifle like I did a shotgun. Quick point lead and shoot. However most times I missed and those times I didn't the animal incurred a wounding hit. I still hunt the same way occasionally for a change up to my regular routine. But I traded that short barreled Trapper and a jug of Windsor for a 300 99E Savage long ago. Not once have I ever regretted doing so. But that doesn't imply in any way you will incur the same experience as I did OP. You want to try a short barreled rifle for hunting by all means go for it.
 
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Moloch

New member
Thanks for the replies guys, seems like accuracy doesn't suffer nearly as much as I feared! :)

This is the sight I'm talking about, it replaces the old leaf-type rear sight of the milsurp rifle with a elevation and windage adjustable peep sight.
I currently have one installed on the rifle and accuracy has slightly increased, its not a target aparture sight by any means but it seems to work. For me at least.

T38ClickFront.jpg
Snap-Sights-Pic2.jpg


The idea behind this project is having a compact enough rifle to be carried on my backpack without getting constantly caught in the brush.
Carrying a 24'' barrel scoped rifle feels like carrying a heavy flagpole (and I'm 6'1''), I want a full powered rifle that is lightweight and so compact that I hardly feel its there.
 
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kawasakifreak77

New member
My shortest rifle (AAC Micro 7) is currently my most accurate. It's only got a 16" barrel. I'm using a Skinner 'lopro' peep sight mounted in the farthest rear scope mount hole in the receiver. The front sight is a Marbles green fiber optic rod & is lighting fast offhand. Still, I can draw 1.5" groups at 100 meters when I do my part & I'm not the best trigger puller!

What milsurp are you cutting down?
 
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Moloch

New member
Very impressive shooting, though you can easily add 5'' with the sight installed so far back I think. There is only one gun I can shoot 1-1.5'' groups with using open sights, and its definitely not a handy 16'' rifle. :eek:


I'm planning on cutting a 98, thought about getting a XS peep sight that mounts on the rear of the receiver making the line of sight longer but I simply don't want to spend that much money on it - and I already have the MOJO installed. Also considered a Williams receiver peep sight but I don't like the looks of it, its too ''exposed'' and looks like it could be easily damaged when only slightly banged against a tree. I have one on my Lyman GPR muzzleloader though. Good target sight but a bit too fragile for woods use.
 
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HiBC

New member
If you decide you would like a receiver peep,the old school ones are not hard to find for moderate price.
For rugged and simple,I like the Redfield.It is adjustable for windage in sight in,via opposed angled clamping screws.It is not field/target adjustable for windage.

Elevation is field adjustable.Of course there are the Lymans.The old ones were steel.

Check e-bay once in a while.
 
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Jimro

New member
If accuracy is a primary concern, a receiver sight would be the way to go. Williams makes several different models for the Mauser 98 action. That would maximize your sight radius for the short barrel length.

The Mojo sights should be plenty quick, and "good enough" for minute of deer. I don't like a see through circular front sight, but that is a matter of personal preference, I like a thick square topped blade that I can make out easily.

Jimro
 
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Moloch

New member
If accuracy is a primary concern, a receiver sight would be the way to go. Williams makes several different models for the Mauser 98 action. That would maximize your sight radius for the short barrel length.
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Accuracy is not my primary concern but inaccurate rifles are completely pointless. Like I said I'm not planning to use it much on the range, though it should still possess a reasonable amount of accuracy. Personally I'd be satisfied with 4'' or smaller groups at 100.
I don't like the williams peep sights though, they're like Lymans which means too fragile (many things that can bend) for the rifles intended purpose.

Yes, and it sucks if the front sight is too close to the trigger puller.
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You mean if the front sight is to big/wide because its so close to the shooters eye?

Check e-bay once in a while.
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Sounds like a plan!
 
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Picher

New member
It depends on your eyesight and it's accommodation. I'm too old to see the front sight and target as clearly as I used to. Check whether you can see the front sight and target clearly at the proposed barrel length before cutting the barrel.

As you age, you won't be able to see both target and front sight unless the receiver sight has a smaller aperture. However a smaller aperture will reduce your low-light shooting ability. Then, you'll need either a red-dot sight or a low-powered scope. That's life.
 
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Sarge

New member
Moloch said:
Accuracy is not my primary concern but inaccurate rifles are completely pointless. Like I said I'm not planning to use it much on the range, though it should still possess a reasonable amount of accuracy. Personally I'd be satisfied with 4'' or smaller groups at 100.
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I've had a number of 16" (plus a fraction) iron-sighted rifles and all of them, including the current, stock WASR, would meet your accuracy standard at twice the distance. This is assuming decent light and either corrected vision, or the ancient eye-winkers having a good day. These factors are huge. You have to be able to see it to hit it and in the dark old woods, some of us need a crutch. I like a white 1/16" bead up front of the application will support that.

BTW that stubby Mauser sounds cool as heck.
 
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SR420

New member
Moloch, what I'm saying is that you may have trouble seeing the front sight clearly if it is too close to your eye. I have experienced this problem with my bullpup M14 - YRMV.
 
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Sarge

New member
Depends entirely on your eyesight, SR420. I have reached that point in life where I like them closer rather than farther.
 
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Moloch

New member
It depends on your eyesight and it's accommodation. I'm too old to see the front sight and target as clearly as I used to. Check whether you can see the front sight and target clearly at the proposed barrel length before cutting the barrel.
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Today a friend of mine showed me his Mosin Nagant M44 which is the carbine version of the Mosin Nagant (18'' I think), I looked down the sights and had no problems to see the front post. I don't think the front sight one or two inches closer to my eye would make a significant difference so I guess I'm still young enough to use irons on short rifles. Yay! :)
Considered a Ghost Ring setup? All the benefits of a reciever sight with less bendy parts.
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Yes, though I recently upgraded to a MOJO rear leaf sight (a peep sight that replaces the original rear sight) and I want to see if it works for me before buying yet another expensive peep sight.
BTW that stubby Mauser sounds cool as heck.
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And boy, it looks even cooler. :D
When I found this picture of a shortened 98 scout I decided to build a similar rifle, minus the scope. And it stays in 8x57, its a superb cartridge if you reload, no need to swap the barrel to make it a .308.

eh_mausero_zpsce287aac.jpg
 
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salvadore

Moderator
Here's my Tanker 94. It's one of my cast bullet shooters and with geezer eyesight anything under 4" @ 100yds gets me all twitterpated.


 
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