Shipping firearm to FFL. A hypothetical conundrum.

[Nickel Plated]

First, the OP and the seller are residents of Pennsylvania. Under the laws of that State all transfers of handguns must go through an FFL. To the extent that the OP might be participating in a violation of that law he can have criminal liability as a conspirator, as an aider and abettor, or as an accessory -- depending on the exact circumstances and the specifics of Pennsylvania law.

Hmm I was not aware of this. I assumed FTF transfers of handguns were treated the same as long guns in PA. I just moved here from NYC and admit I haven't taken the time to sift through the finer points of the law. Nice to know.
I guess that would definitely be a way for them to get you.

All I have to say is OP created this himself by making it harder than it had to be. Just contact the local FFL and ask if they could pick it up for an extra fee at the post office. Worth the hassle just to get the gun imho at this point.

I don't really see how I created anything. All I did was have a handgun shipped from one FFL to another. I have no control over when USPS makes their deliveries. And that's exactly what I did. Called the FFL, they picked the gun up today. So it's waiting for me at the shop.
I admit, after this I would rather just make the drive and pick it up in person. Or buy local. But I was buying a Gen 2 Glock 17. Not rare, but not exactly something you can just walk into any random local gun shop and expect them to have it.

Anyway my curiosity has been satisfied. Like I thought, it's a legal can-o-worms that's better off not being messed with.

 

[zipspyder]

I don't really see how I created anything. All I did was have a handgun shipped from one FFL to another.

Easy...ship it to your residence since it's in state purchase. You know your USPS home delivery times and can pick it up later if not home. Your whole point of the thread is you created the scenario yourself by going FFL to FFL and had an issue. I'm not sure where the disconnect is in understanding that? Just replying since you quoted me, not trying to make a big deal of it.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Easy...ship it to your residence since it's in state purchase.

It's an in-state purchase in a state that requires all transfers of handguns to go through a licensed FFL. Your advice is inapplicable.

 

[Frank Ettin]

.......ship it to your residence since it's in state purchase. ...

You're obviously not paying attention, and you clearly don't understand the applicable law.

In addition to the fact that this takes place in Pennsylvania and that under Pennsylvania law all handgun transfers must go through an FFL --

1. The OP bought a gun from an FFL.
   
   
2. Under federal law an FFL is prohibited from shipping a gun to the purchaser (18 USC 922(a)(2)).
   
   
3. Under federal law (18 USC 922(c)) an FFL may sell a gun to a non-licensee who doesn't personally appear at his place of business only if the following conditions are satisfied:

   (1) the transferee submits to the transferor a sworn statement in the following form:
   
   

   “Subject to penalties provided by law, I swear that, in the case of any firearm other than a shotgun or a rifle, I am twenty-one years or more of age, or that, in the case of a shotgun or a rifle, I am eighteen years or more of age; that I am not prohibited by the provisions of chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, from receiving a firearm in interstate or foreign commerce; and that my receipt of this firearm will not be in violation of any statute of the State and published ordinance applicable to the locality in which I reside. Further, the true title, name, and address of the principal law enforcement officer of the locality to which the firearm will be delivered are ____________
   
   _______________________
   
   Signature _________ Date ____.”​

   
   and containing blank spaces for the attachment of a true copy of any permit or other information required pursuant to such statute or published ordinance;
   
   (2) the transferor has, prior to the shipment or delivery of the firearm, forwarded by registered or certified mail (return receipt requested) a copy of the sworn statement, together with a description of the firearm, in a form prescribed by the Attorney General, to the chief law enforcement officer of the transferee’s place of residence, and has received a return receipt evidencing delivery of the statement or has had the statement returned due to the refusal of the named addressee to accept such letter in accordance with United States Post Office Department regulations; and
   
   (3) the transferor has delayed shipment or delivery for a period of at least seven days following receipt of the notification of the acceptance or refusal of delivery of the statement.
   
   A copy of the sworn statement and a copy of the notification to the local law enforcement officer, together with evidence of receipt or rejection of that notification shall be retained by the licensee as a part of the records required to be kept under section 923(g).

   
   
4. Under federal law (18 USC 922(t)) an FFL may not transfer a gun to a non-licensee without satisfying certain background check requirements at the FFL's place of business.

So no, the OP could not have had the gun sent directly to him by the selling FFL, and the selling FFL could not legally have sent the gun directly to the OP.

 

[carguychris]

Kinda forgot about this thread.

There should be no extra fee. This should be included in the transfer. It's the cost of doing business!

No it is not unless that is part of their routine. Especially if said Post Office is 20 miles away for just one gun. Time is money as well for a special trip. They can call to request a re-delivery to the FFL address. You assume too much for the "cost of business".

I'll concede your point if the buyer is demanding that the FFL pick up the firearm THE SAME DAY, or at some other unanticipated time.

OTOH given the common use of USPS in the industry, I would find it unfair and deceptive for a FFL to categorically charge extra for USPS pickup unless this is very clearly explained up front.

Why does it need to cost so much to ship via UPS? I ship fluu size audio components via UPS and it only costs $30-$45 or so on average. A handgun should be much cheaper. You don't need all the extra security or add-ons. The fact is that they will attempt deliver the package several times, for one thing, USPS won't do that.

The UPS shipping rules require that handguns go Next Day Air. Although I've not heard this confirmed by a first-hand source, the most common explanation is that these packages go into a special area where they're basically under surveillance 24/7 to prevent unauthorized employees from messing with them.

FWIW another wrinkle is that FedEx and UPS bar the use of drop boxes, driver pick-up, and franchisee-operated shipping centers such as the UPS Store; you have to ship from a company-operated shipping center, which can be a major PITA if you're not located near a major population center or commercial airport.

One thing that kinda makes me wonder is what about shops that aren't open every day? or aren't open till after the mail man has already ran?
I wonder if USPS can drop such things in a drop box? or does it have to go into the hands of a human being?

Many "kitchen table" FFLs use PO boxes for exactly this reason. Such FFLs often maintain oddball hours that don't coincide with the local mail carriers' delivery times.

An FFL is allowed to take possession of firearms in any location where firearms may be lawfully possessed, including a PO box. If you look at an actual license (often posted on the dealer's wall), there's a space for "Mailing Address" in case it's different than the physical premises address; this lets other FFLs know that the PO box shipping address is legit.

 

[zipspyder]

Sorry guys, didn't realize it was a handgun. Not sure how I overlooked that! Mistakenly thought I was a rifle.

@Frank...lighten up a little ffs. Don't care if your staff and don't need preaching/law quoting.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...@Frank...lighten up a little ffs. Don't care if your staff and don't need preaching/law quoting.

Actually you do.

Legal matters are serious and need to be taken seriously. Bad information can get folks into a lot of trouble. You thought you knew what the facts were, and you thought you knew what the law was. You were wrong on both counts.

So you suggested that the OP should have done something which (1) couldn't be done legally; and (2) if it were done could have had some serious, negative consequences.

If you're not sure what the law is, don't assume that you know. Ask and/or do some research. And if you're sure you know what the law is, do the research anyway (which is something that lawyers do all the time).