Seecamp LWS-32 Owners...

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Blackhawk

New member
Thanks, hoplophile.

Since the peak effective pressure of a .32 ACP is in the 13kpsi range, that sounds like it would have very little effectiveness but be a great marketing gimmick.

Are you aware of any direct comparison testing being done on that arrangement with any.32 ACP gun?
 
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hoplophile

New member
It doesn't take much pressure to deform the case into the ring, and cases will allegedly freeze in the chamber if the ring is too severe.

An indication the system does work is that the Sivertip bullet speeds of the Seecamp and the Guardian are comparable. The Guardian slide is significantly heavier than the LWS32 slide, yet Silvertips reportedly chronograph at about the same speeds (800-825 fps) for both weapons as I recall. Given that the equal and opposite forces rule in physics should provide an advantage to the heavier slide, this might suggest the roughened chamber offers some retarding factor that substitutes for weight.

I wish I could remember where I saw the High Standard article in which the chamber ring thing was elaborately dissected. I believe it was in the Rifleman when Ludwig Olsen was still the technical editor.
 
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7th Fleet

New member
I wanted a Seecamp .32 for a long time but was unwilling to pay the price. When I bought my hardchromed P-32 my desire for a Seecamp vanished. Far less weight in a locked breech with a higher magazine capacity, for half the price was a no brainer...

7th
 
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deputy tom

New member
I've owned My Seecamp .32 acp for approx. 10 years now and like it alot.No regrets.I've also owned a Kel-Tec.32 and a NA Guardian .32.I had lots of problems with the Kel-Tec but the Guardian is one I wished I'd kept.tom.
 
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Blackhawk

New member
An indication the system does work is that the Sivertip bullet speeds of the Seecamp and the Guardian are comparable. The Guardian slide is significantly heavier than the LWS32 slide, yet Silvertips reportedly chronograph at about the same speeds (800-825 fps) for both weapons as I recall. Given that the equal and opposite forces rule in physics should provide an advantage to the heavier slide, this might suggest the roughened chamber offers some retarding factor that substitutes for weight.
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Thanks for the information, but I don't agree with the conclusions.

The rearward slide accelerating force comes from the expulsion of the bullet plus the gas jet effect, all of which takes place before the casing clears the chamber whether it's a retarded blowback, plain blowback, or locked breech design.
 
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GeorgeH

New member
Hi deputy tom:

I have 3 Seecamps and 2 Guardians (the G32 and G380). If the Guardians were around when I bought my first Seecamp, I would have most likely have passed up the Seecamp.

But I have no complaints with either the Seecamp of Guardian. I don't own a P32, but I want to buy one to find out for myself why people either love or hate them.
 
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hoplophile

New member
You are saying that a bullet shot from a straight blowback pistol which has a slide that weighs no more than the bullet itself would chronograph the same as a bullet shot from a locked breech pistol? You'll have to explain to me how that works.
 
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GeorgeH

New member
Hi hoplophile:

Physics. (1) For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. (2) Energy cannot be distroyed only transformed.

The engery stored in a cartridge is the same regardless of the firearm that it is used in. While barrel length is a factor as to velocity, the weight of the gun and slide is not. A recoil operated firearm may have less perceived recoil since the free engery may move greater mass than a blow back type of pistol (a barrel and slide v a slide only).

Since the barrel is fixed in relation to its frame in a blow back style of pistol it is more inherently accurate than the recoil style of pistol in which the barrel moves during use.
 
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Blackhawk

New member
which has a slide that weighs no more than the bullet itself
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Where did you get that idea? :confused:

On a Kel Tec P-32, the slide alone weighs more than 19 times what the typical 71 grain .32 ACP FMJ bullet weighs. That's close to the relative weights of a person compared to a car.

Chances are that the Seecamp's slide weighs more than the 3.1 ounces of the P-32's.
 
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FPrice

New member
All...

Some very interesting postings and I thank everyone who took the time to reply.

It looks like simple economics (is there really some simple economics?) will keep me from taking advantage of this opportunity. If I had the money, I would. But the money I planned on putting towards this pistol went into my wife's van.

Another time perhaps. Thanks for all the input.
 
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hoplophile

New member
Actually, the Seecamp slide weighs less than three ounces including the weight of the recoil spring.

With the law of Physics that has been cited, "(1) For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction," the presumption would have to be that the rate of slide travel is directly proportional to the mass relationship between bullet and slide -- excluding the natural friction of the cartridge case in the chamber and bullet friction in the barrel. If the slide plus case weighed the same as the bullet (and friction were discounted), the slide would move exactly as fast as the bullet.

As the bullet travels up the barrel pressure is relieved considerably. The space within which the combustion takes place is increased. This naturally reduces pressure. Now, if the slide is positioned further to the rear when the bullet leaves the barrel, the internal pressure that thrusts the bullet forward has also been reduced because the combustion area is increased. This results in reduced bullet speed. Keeping the slide forward produces better ballistics, all other things being equal.

An example where a locked breech improved ballistic performance is the Oerlikon cannon. These were low velocity weapons until they were provided with a locked breech.
 
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GeorgeH

New member
Hi hoplophile:

I agree with Blackhawk: physics is clearly not your strong suit.

Second guns like the 1911A1, P32 et cetera are recoil operated pistols and not true "locked breech" designs. A locked breech design is one where the breech remains closed throughout fire and recoil. Lock breech designs are commonly used where the escaping gas could be a danger for those around the breech, like a cannon.

Have you shot a revolver? Under your theory they shouldn't work.
 
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hoplophile

New member
Look, we all know that excessive head space affects accuracy. Why is that? The barrel is the same and points in the same direction regardless of headspace. The reason headspace affects accuracy is because the compression chamber on detonation varies. The size of the compression chamber affects PSI and velocity.

Bolt actions are traditionally used as long range sniper rifles for this reason -- the ability to achieve greater and more consistent bullet velocity resulting in greater range and accuracy.

Given identical barrel lengths and barrel, etc., velocities of bullets chronographed from bolt actions are slightly higher than bullet velocities from semi-autos.

Here's an example for you:

"The Myra .202 by Brendan Atkinson

What I did receive was a bolt action and a semi-automatic version of the .202.

The semi-auto appeared to chronograph slightly slower than the bolt action."

http://www.singleshooters.org/extruder3.htm

Exactly what laws of physics are you using to come up with your theories. Please explain why an expanded compression area has no affect on velocity.
 
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GeorgeH

New member
Hi hoplophile:

You have now jumped to fluid mechanics. I'm still trying to get you to understand that the energy stored within the powder contained in a firearm cartridge is the same regardless of what firearm the cartridge is fired from.

Once we understand the basic physics involved, then maybe we can advance to a discussion of the effects of a fluid in a closed enviornment.

As to your second question a self-loading pistol which is not a revolver is usually designed to operate using the pistols (1) recoil, (2) the diversion of the gas produced [ie, a gas operated pistol], or (3) recoil. Some use both.

A locked breach firearm is one where the breech is sealed during discharge and recoil. A bolt action, falling block, lever action rifles are all locked breech systems. People commonly refer to a 1911A1 as having a locked breech because the slide and barrel are mated when the gun is in battery. But the breech is not a true locked breech because the breech opens during a firing cycle.
 
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hoplophile

New member
Hi George.

Have you shot a revolver? Under your theory they shouldn't work.
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You have now jumped to fluid mechanics. I'm still trying to get you to understand that the energy stored within the powder contained in a firearm cartridge is the same regardless of what firearm the cartridge is fired from.
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Huh?

In anticipation of what you might say next, I don't think the Schrödinger cat paradox applies here. Nor is Niels Bohr's "Copenhagen interpretation" of quantum systems relevent.

I do understand the potential energy contained within a cartridge is the same irrespective of the firearm used; however, I thought we were discussing the kinetic energy or speed of the bullet as it exits the barrel -- which can and does vary from gun to gun.

Once we understand the basic physics involved, then maybe we can advance to a discussion of the effects of a fluid in a closed enviornment.
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I’d rather not get into that subject. I’m not much of a basketball fan.
 
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Jeff OTMG

New member
Blackhawk, I assure you, a Rohrbaugh is not smaller than a P32. Smaller than an ASP, about the size of a Walther PPK, only lighter.

Seecamps are available from Bachman in Dallas for $439, $469 at the gun shows. That still seems high since they are plentiful now. I have seen them in the $400 range and used as little as $375. I believe that dealer is, or was, $350.
 
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