Second Amendment Extremist View?

[Bud Helms]

My first +1 post ever ...

... goes to 44 AMP.

Good to have you on Staff, Gary.

There was a time here on TFL when thoughtful analysis like that was not uncommon.




One weapon in the "Culture War" is the language we use. Sloganology, mythical definitions, habitual misuse and partisan semantics all work their way into our daily language. Next thing you know, there is a acceptance, a colloquial "meaning" that simply isn't so.

 

[Seancass]

It looks like you lost the argument and did youself no favors. You used emotions and loaded phrases. the emotion is emphasised by storming out. This emotional outburst could make you appear like the "extremist" the prof portrayed you as. You should have stuck to logic with arguments such as "the criminals already have guns" or "to think that criminals would suddenly start obeying laws if you made a new gun law is literally crasy". Or use humor "well if somebody wants to kill me, i want to kill them back, and i want to have a bigger gun" etc. also, like 44 amp said, when he said you where like iraq soldiers, remind him you're also like american soldiers. You can only throw out so many canned phrases, think on your feet.


I doubt any of you classmates where swayed towards guns by this argument. some of them either have guns or family members that own guns and you want to be just another student who happens to have a gun(or 10). Not some crazy "extremist" gunman, just another student thinking with his head.

 

[Silver Bullet]

The professor said that I would kill and die for my beliefs makes me the same as those we are fighting against in Iraq

Pitiful analogy. By the professor’s logic, the Jews who were rounded up in Germany, Poland, etc., would be terrorists if they had fought back against the nazis.

 

[Ballenxj]

My first + 1 post ever...... goes to 44 AMP.

Good to have you on Staff, Gary.

That "was" very well spoken. triggerhappy2006 could have used the help of someone like Gary in class that day.
-Bruce

 

[eric75]

What the professors are doing in the name of academics is making me sick.

I liked the advice I read in an interview with J. Budziszewki for World Magazine. The topic was a book he wrote about defending a Christian belief system in a hostile academic setting. I think it also can be applied to this situation. "Rule one is 'speak up' ... Other rules are 'Be logical,' 'Be respectful,' 'Keep it brief,' 'Limit yourself to a single point,' and 'Remember you don't have to win.' ... ask 'Sir, I understand the insult, but what is the argument?'"

Don't let these people pull a fast one by resorting to feelings and slogans. As Americans who like to think, speak and act freely, it is critical that we communicate that our beliefs and opinions are supported by logical arguments.

 

[Dewhitewolf]

In the college environment, professors often take advantage of the fact that college students are oblivious, and "push" their political views. Students often don't question it because it comes from the mouth of an educated professor. I have seen this phenomonon happen many times myself.

Students hear the "good sense" argument from the professor, and if there are students that have an opposing view, they are often ill equipped to take on a well knowledgeable professor. In fact, professors often take advantage of someone by singling him out in front of class in an effort to make him look "wrong" or "extreme." Other students that share the opinion of the professor now have validation to their prejudice, because a professor is backing them up.

The problem is that it is easy for people to hate what they don't understand. Trying to "educate" your professor and classmates right then and there would probably have been an exercise in futility, only because you may not be prepared with sufficient research to counter his arguments, which he may have memorized. You may also not have as much debate experience as he has, so he is in the position of out maneuvering you.

In order to get through to people, you have to stay away from the strategy of proving people wrong. Generally, people don't want to admit they're wrong about anything, even in the face of irrefutable proof. Instead, focus on changing their opinions: start a club with like-minded students to promote awareness of 2nd Amendment issues; find a gun club to sponsor a "students' day at the range; have guest speakers come in and speak first hand about gun issues. And above all, shy away from the rhetoric ("from my cold dead hands"), which only serves to isolate you from the audience you're trying to win over.

Remember the words of Abraham Lincoln, "If I make friends of my enemies, do I not in effect destroy them?"

 

[SPUSCG]

Ive known plenty of objective teachers who dont throw beliefs on people, and even some pro gun teachers. theres always some wackos though and it seems like you got one

 

[Webleymkv]

Webster says the following

ter·ror·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈter-ər-ˌi-zəm\
Function: noun
Date: 1795
: the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion
— ter·ror·ist \-ər-ist\ adjective or noun
— ter·ror·is·tic \ˌter-ər-ˈis-tik\ adjective

So, could a tyrannical government that uses the terror instilled by the threat of punishment not be called terrorists themselves? Perhaps you should have asked the professor what he'd do if the government ordered him to relinquish all of his books or ordered him to commit some sort of atrocity. If he resists, does that make him a terrorist? I think he was using a rather loose definition and should've been called on it.

 

[AZAK]

I teach debate and one of the first lessons that I share with my students concerns the fact that almost all meaningful debate has an audience.

From your description, I would venture that your "teacher" was not looking for a "policy" debate, he was fishing for a reason to stand up on a soap box and spout his "well earned authority" to his audience, your class, at your expense. Or he could have been attempting to begin a reasonable debate. Only you, at that point, could choose which way you wished to respond. Which brings me to one of my favorite sayings, "Would you rather be a sage on the stage, or a guide on the side?"

Another of my day one lesson's concerning debate is that:
Debate does not equal belief.
Just because you believe strongly in something does not make it so for anyone else.

If you feel strongly about the 2nd Amendment, or any other topic for that matter, I would suggest that you take some time to learn about the skills necessary to become a successful debater. (At least if you want to discuss issues in any public forum.)

In my opinion, debating skills are some of the most important life skills that anyone can learn. And it does take time, and lots of practice, to become convincing and persuasive when arguing against a competent opponent.

Otherwise when you engage with someone, like you did, you will just come out looking like a kid in a sandbox throwing sand; and actually add to the validity of the other's argument against you and your position, to the audience. (And that really is the point isn't it? To have the audience persuaded that you have the better position. You likely are not going to change your mind, and neither is your "teacher".)

You asked for our opinions, and these are mine. Pretty easy to write down quickly, but takes a bit of time, effort and dedication to achieve.

Good Luck and Best Wishes

 

[PT111]

By walking out you admitted that the professor was right in front of the rest of the class. He may have baited you but you fell for it hook, line and sinker. You showed the rest of the class what a nut job gun owners are and made his point.

 

[Ballenxj]

By walking out you admitted that the professor was right in front of the rest of the class. He may have baited you but you fell for it hook, line and sinker. You showed the rest of the class what a nut job gun owners are and made his point.

Aren't You being a wee bit harsh on the OP here? That professor had many years of experience over his students, and I'm sure this has already been well rehearsed. In fact, I'd be willing to bet this is not the first time he has pulled this stunt.
The OP on the other hand, was totally unprepared for the unfolding drama this crafty professor laid on him.
SHAME on that professor for presenting his personal views at the students expense.
-Bruce

 

[gcmk13]

"I would remind you that extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice! And let me also remind you that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!"

Barry Goldwater

If this is like most sociology type classes, you can just show up to class, daydream for an hour (or check out all of the girls), get your A, and move on. It is completely irrelevent in the long run. I made the mistake of butting heads with a sociology professor for an entire semester. It turns out he liked it; the old saying about wrestling with the pig comes to mind. You won't hear me say this often, but I should have paid less attention to my studies and more attention to all of the girls in the class.

You're still young. Ignoring the trivial people in life wasn't a skill I learned until much later, but it's good to start working on it early.

I also second the post about learning debating skills. It is very important. I'm not sure that this is the place to start, though.

 

[pogo2]

Alternate approach

I believe your strongest argument in this situation is to lump the Second Amendment together with all the other amendments, and take the position that a threat to any one amendment is a threat to them all. If the government can unilaterally void a single amendment, they can easily void them all. Then where are we? We have no Constitution left, and are living in a despotic state.

What would the Founding Fathers do in that situation? We saw what they would do - they did it in 1775 and kept at it until the despot was thrown off.

 

[FyredUp]

I had an Instructor at the tech college who was as left as left could get. The government was wrong, Viet Nam was wrong, baby killers, gun confiscation, you know the type. This too was a social problems class and we butted heads all semester with me barely getting C's. The last month of class I just said screw it. Wrote what SHE believed for my papers. Answered essay questions with HER opinion and voila I got an A.

My point? Insignificant people like that are a speed bump in your life. You can stand and fight with them and yet they still control your grade and sometimes it just isn't worth it. It can be like arguing with a child who just learned the word NO!, you know you are right but you will never get through. Go back to class, engage if you feel the need but be better prepared next time to debate and not throw out slogans that make you look like an extremist.

Good luck.

 

[PT111]

My point? Insignificant people like that are a speed bump in your life. You can stand and fight with them and yet they still control your grade and sometimes it just isn't worth it. It can be like arguing with a child who just learned the word NO!, you know you are right but you will never get through. Go back to class, engage if you feel the need but be better prepared next time to debate and not throw out slogans that make you look like an extremist.

I had a sociology prof that was extremely liberal and a doofuss on top of that. He becam very upset one day when we were talking about the SCOTUS and I said that most rulings were completely political and a 5-4 decision. Then he started talking about the terrible things done by the police during the 1968 march on Washington. One student asked him if he was there and the prof said No. The other student then siad well I was and your information is completely wrong. I thought we were all going to get thrown out that day. You just have to have a clear argument with facts. Slogans and don't cut it, that was the point of the prof but is what the OP tried to use.

BTW my apologies to any doofusses I may have offended by including this prof in with you.

 

[Nnobby45]

There are lots of tenured professors out their who advocate socialism for others, but probably never donated a dime to the needy, nor complained about their 100K, or more, per annum salary.

I suppose there's nothing wrong with throwing down the gauntlet, as long as one knows that's what he's doing and is prepared for the likely response, and has a good one of his own.

 

[jarkaimaster]

I agree . . .sort of

While I agree with your position, your reply (which I agree with, by the way) probably came across as TOO EXTREME. Next time, just say something like "I believe its our God-given right to defend ourselves from threats within and without--that means civilians get to use the 2nd Amendment. Feel, how you want (I feel the same way), but try to be a little more tactful--you won't make as many enemies that way.

 

[Waitone]

Next go'round ask the prof why is it government would be interested in confiscating all firearms.

An expected response would be for the chilren, stop the killing, or some other blather.

A brief historical response would be appropriate. List country, date of confiscation, and follow-on genocide. After a litany of say 5 examples conclude with a question such as, "What is my government planning that makes me a danger to it if I am armed?"

 

[triggerhappy2006]

I wasnt as concerned with proving the professor wrong or getting anyone to become pro gun as I was prevent the professor(who has a tendency to become very emotional and outraged and not drop things when someone doesnt agree) from turning the class period into an anti-gun debate because it was a fight i didnt think i could win( at the time). The professor will do the whole shpeal where they dont let you get a word in and then become very childish when you start to make a point. That and I dont want to do anything to endanger my potential agreement with the president of the university(i dropped him a letter asking to keep a gun in my car because i work in a bad area right after classes)

 

[B.N.Real]

Very sad to see a teacher with that kind of view.

And I know that he is not by himself in that view.

These people take the Constitution for granted because they are provided free of charge the freedom provided by the military people of the U.S. Armed Forces.

Ironically,these teachers support only one point of view about gun ownership.

That view which leads to a totalitarian state.

They should check their history books well.

It is usually the teachers who are the first people who are rounded up and shot to death when a dictatorship takes over a country.