Seal dies when gun jammed!
- Thread starter Dave3006
- Start date
God bless the loved ones he left behind.
Unfortunately, the gist of the original poster was yet another thread bashing the AR-15/M-16/M-4.
'I've made up my mind, don't confuse me with the facts'.
I guess the Sarah Brady crowd doesn't have the market cornered on folks with this mentality.
Unfortunately, the gist of the original poster was yet another thread bashing the AR-15/M-16/M-4.
'I've made up my mind, don't confuse me with the facts'.
I guess the Sarah Brady crowd doesn't have the market cornered on folks with this mentality.
Could have been any weapon in the world.....
As mentioned before, ALL guns jam, eventually.
Further, a SEAL may chose any particular weapon available for any particular mission. They use MP5's, M4's, AK's, HK91's, 1911's, S&W 686's, etc, etc, etc. However, based on other info available the gun was comandeered from the BG's.
So to immediately blame an AR is just plain ignorant.
Ed
As mentioned before, ALL guns jam, eventually.
Further, a SEAL may chose any particular weapon available for any particular mission. They use MP5's, M4's, AK's, HK91's, 1911's, S&W 686's, etc, etc, etc. However, based on other info available the gun was comandeered from the BG's.
So to immediately blame an AR is just plain ignorant.
Ed
ojibweindian
New member
I'm pretty sure I knew Petty Officer Roberts when I was in San Diego back in 93-94. He was a corpsman (HN/E-3) at NavHosp San Diego. Really nice guy, laid back, friendly, and kept himself in excellent shape.
When I knew him, he had just been dropped from BUDS because of a serious ankle injury. He was gonna rehab the ankle and try again.
When I knew him, he had just been dropped from BUDS because of a serious ankle injury. He was gonna rehab the ankle and try again.
Double Naught Spy
New member
Here is a link to the account via NavySeals.com ...
http://www.navyseals.com/community/articles/viewarticle.cfm?catid=5&newsid=18
This version provides some interesting information. First, it says the SEAL did have a SAW and that was the gun in question. Next is quoted from the text...
"Hagenbeck says the imagery taken by the drone appeared to show him being taken prisoner. "The image was fuzzy, but we believe it showed three al Qaeda had captured Roberts and were taking him away around to the south side of Ginger and disappearing into a tree line," Hagenbeck said. "That was 15 to 20 minutes before the first rescue team arrived."
The review by Special Operations Command concluded that Roberts was shot at close range. His SAW was found near his body with blood on it, along with other evidence that he had been able to fire some shots. Some ammunition remained in the gun, suggesting it had jammed.
The review by Special Operations Command concluded that Roberts was shot at close range. His SAW was found near his body with blood on it, along with other evidence that he had been able to fire some shots. Some ammunition remained in the gun, suggesting it had jammed."
----
This is real interesting as they paint a picture between the lines essentially saying that since the Seal was dead and he still had rounds in his gun, that the gun must have jammed, hence causing him to not be able to defend himself and therefore was subsequently killed. Since when would having ammo in your gun hardly substantiates the claim the gun jammed. Soliders get injured or killed quite regularly in conflicts and they often will still have ammo in their guns and the guns be functional. Earlier in the discussion it was stated that he might have done a battlefield pickup of an Al Queda gun. No doubt if this were the case that the Al Queda soldier was wounded or killed and the Seal collected a functional and loaded gun from the soldier
The salient point here is that nobody actually verified if the gun was jammed or not. It is not unreasonable to think that the Seal could have gotten shot or otherwise injured before being captured and was no longer able to operate his weapon for whatever reason. There is also the possibility that he surrended when he realized that he was low on ammo and no help was in sight.
Note that the report said he was captured and taken to another location and that he had been shot at close range and that there was blood on his gun. Since he was taken to another location other than where the fight occurred, there is no way of knowing when the blood got onto the gun or if he had more than one wound. Obviously, if you capture a prisoner, you don't let them carry around their weapon when in custody. I would find it hard to believe that he was taken prisoner and later shot at close range, close enough that his weapon got blood on it from that event. It may very well be that the blood came from another injury he suffered or could even have come from a wound of one of his captors who may have taken charge of the weapon when the Seal was captured.
All this discussion concerning gun jams and soldier longevity for this incident becomes somewhat pointless given that the basis of this thread, treated as a fact, was never verified and some purely conjecture. AND this assumes the information on the NavySeals.com site is accurate.
http://www.navyseals.com/community/articles/viewarticle.cfm?catid=5&newsid=18
This version provides some interesting information. First, it says the SEAL did have a SAW and that was the gun in question. Next is quoted from the text...
"Hagenbeck says the imagery taken by the drone appeared to show him being taken prisoner. "The image was fuzzy, but we believe it showed three al Qaeda had captured Roberts and were taking him away around to the south side of Ginger and disappearing into a tree line," Hagenbeck said. "That was 15 to 20 minutes before the first rescue team arrived."
The review by Special Operations Command concluded that Roberts was shot at close range. His SAW was found near his body with blood on it, along with other evidence that he had been able to fire some shots. Some ammunition remained in the gun, suggesting it had jammed.
The review by Special Operations Command concluded that Roberts was shot at close range. His SAW was found near his body with blood on it, along with other evidence that he had been able to fire some shots. Some ammunition remained in the gun, suggesting it had jammed."
----
This is real interesting as they paint a picture between the lines essentially saying that since the Seal was dead and he still had rounds in his gun, that the gun must have jammed, hence causing him to not be able to defend himself and therefore was subsequently killed. Since when would having ammo in your gun hardly substantiates the claim the gun jammed. Soliders get injured or killed quite regularly in conflicts and they often will still have ammo in their guns and the guns be functional. Earlier in the discussion it was stated that he might have done a battlefield pickup of an Al Queda gun. No doubt if this were the case that the Al Queda soldier was wounded or killed and the Seal collected a functional and loaded gun from the soldier
The salient point here is that nobody actually verified if the gun was jammed or not. It is not unreasonable to think that the Seal could have gotten shot or otherwise injured before being captured and was no longer able to operate his weapon for whatever reason. There is also the possibility that he surrended when he realized that he was low on ammo and no help was in sight.
Note that the report said he was captured and taken to another location and that he had been shot at close range and that there was blood on his gun. Since he was taken to another location other than where the fight occurred, there is no way of knowing when the blood got onto the gun or if he had more than one wound. Obviously, if you capture a prisoner, you don't let them carry around their weapon when in custody. I would find it hard to believe that he was taken prisoner and later shot at close range, close enough that his weapon got blood on it from that event. It may very well be that the blood came from another injury he suffered or could even have come from a wound of one of his captors who may have taken charge of the weapon when the Seal was captured.
All this discussion concerning gun jams and soldier longevity for this incident becomes somewhat pointless given that the basis of this thread, treated as a fact, was never verified and some purely conjecture. AND this assumes the information on the NavySeals.com site is accurate.
I noticed a couple of post commented on the Army and Navy working together. This is not a rare occasion anymore. Most of our Ops are a JOP(joint operation). Usually an A-team will include a couple SEALs and maybe a Airforce PJ or two. We make a great team with awsome capabilities using all of our assest combined.
Pray for his family and for those who are still in the fight.
AIRBORNE!
Pray for his family and for those who are still in the fight.
AIRBORNE!
Maybe the concussion from an explosive detonating @ close range kocked him out.
I don't see any other reason why he wouldn't transition to sidearm or knife if his SAW malfunctioned. If those guys had any idea that Chechen AQ were operating in the area and they knew what they do to POWs, he would have been chucking rocks if he didn't have any backup.
RIP Roberts.
I don't see any other reason why he wouldn't transition to sidearm or knife if his SAW malfunctioned. If those guys had any idea that Chechen AQ were operating in the area and they knew what they do to POWs, he would have been chucking rocks if he didn't have any backup.
RIP Roberts.
mauserman420
New member
God Bless him.
Who cares what gun he used. AS long as he whacked 10 or so of the summabitches, he's a hero in my book. Wish I was there to get his back. Wait a minute, dont most of those helos have miniguns on the side doors.....even a Chinook would have at least 2 in either door by the cockpitWhere was their airial support. You would think the army/navy/AF would go in w/ some back.......
Who cares what gun he used. AS long as he whacked 10 or so of the summabitches, he's a hero in my book. Wish I was there to get his back. Wait a minute, dont most of those helos have miniguns on the side doors.....even a Chinook would have at least 2 in either door by the cockpitWhere was their airial support. You would think the army/navy/AF would go in w/ some back.......