Scenario #2

[Hansen]

Scenario # 2



A man visited a bank to conduct some financial business. While standing in line waiting for a teller, armed bank robbers came into the bank and demanded everyone lay on the ground and not move. The man and other patrons complied and laid on the ground. The bank robber then went to the front of the line and demanded cash from the teller at gunpoint. The man saw the robber’s attention was focused on the teller and thought it would be a good time to intervene and stop the robbery. The man stood up withdrew his handgun, and demanded the robber to lay down his weapon. Just then a hidden assailant who was disguised as a bank patron shot & killed the man from behind.








1. What if anything would you have done differently?


2. Was deadly force justified in this incident?


3. Could this have been prevented?

 

[newarcher]

Stay down, comply, do not intervene, do not draw until and unless they start shooting people......CCWr's are not there to save the world nor stop crimes in process.

The is no spotlight that flashes a handgun signal onto the clouds in the sky each time a crime is committed inviting CCWr's to yank em and start saving the world.

Had the CCWr shot the bad guy, he would probably be demonized by the bank personnel as having ratcheded up the violence and would be splayed by the media.

New

 

[V4Vendetta]

1#

I'd lay down.

Then I'd remember one of the lines in the movie "HEAT".

"We want to hurt no one. Your money is insured by the federal government so your not going to lose a dime."

Then I would mind my own affairs unless it was apparent that the thugs were going to kill somebody.

2#

See last sentence of part #1.

3#

No.

 

[ZeSpectre]

You start with robbers (plural) and then switch to robber (singular) but on the whole the advice remains the same.

You must ALWAYS assume there are more bad guys than you can see. The others may be disguised or hidden. Assuming the criminal(s) you see are the only ones present could be a fatal choice.

So unless you are in a situation where you A) know you can trust everyone else or B) can cover everyone else, you should not act unless, of course, you have no other choice such as the execuitions have already started.

 

[obxned]

For many of us, the inside of a bank is a 'no guns' zone.

 

[newarcher]

If you take the course of the man in the scenario, shoot the bank patrons and workers first (hey, could be a BG disguised as a customer or a bank worker). If the bad guy is still around, shoot him too!

JUST KIDDING.

New

 

[The Biker]

Follow instructions, be quiet and as un-noticeable as possible and hope the guy takes the money and runs.
If he starts shooting, so do you until he's down, then look for tailgunners.

Biker

 

[DesertDawg]

"Take-over" robberies at banks are fairly rare, but they DO happen. In this scenario, since you DID mention "suspects", and not just a lone gunman, your best bet is to comply with their orders....at least until your life is in immediate danger.

Let me "twist" your scenario just a bit, by saying that a "suspect" (not in plural) verbally demands everyone to lay flat on the floor. That "macho" verbalization would tend to cause me to at least think that the lone suspect might have an accomplice nearby, and probably acting and looking like an ordinary bank customer.

Now, if the "suspect" or "suspects" start frisking the patrons, and YOU are armed, it's probably a sure thing that YOUR firearm will become a very big factor. If I was armed and about to be frisked, I'd probably try to do something "strange", just to throw off the suspects. Perhaps feign being sick? Start saying something like, "Oh, I think that I'm going to puke!"?....or, perhaps try to do a "foot sweep" of the suspect that is about to frisk me! I'd rather have one of the suspects DOWN, at least temporarily, while taking on the other suspect!

If my "strange" behavior worked, then I would immediately yell, "Everybody STAY DOWN!", before taking on the temporarily "downed" suspect.....and HOPE that there are only TWO suspects!

What it boils down to is the "immediacy" of your safety. If you comply with the suspect(s) by laying down, and they don't start frisking everyone, your chances are much better for survival. If they frisk you, consider it a "50-50" chance of survival after they find your weapon....but the odds are lessened at that point due to the actual "finding" of your weapon! I've always been a "betting man", and I wouldn't like the odds if I was about to be frisked! Time to play the "wild card"!

 

[crankshop1000]

NO!!!!!!!!! Playing cop is not part of having a CCW.

 

[Doug.38PR]

yes deadly force would be justifed as they are using deadly force against you and others. They are also stealing my money (which is in the bank with everyone else's) that I worked for. I wouldn't tell them to drop weapons, they have me outnumbered. I would start taking them out as fast as I could if I thought I had a true advantage.
if I die, then I die.

 

[Samurai]

Bank money is required to be federally insured.

Stick it to the insurance companies! Lie still and obey the robbers.

 

[Doug.38PR]

^ nothing is free. That money has to come from somewhere. Besides, they are threatening you and everyone else with deadly force. Such is to be resisted if possible.

 

[Wildalaska]

+1 cr4ankshop and samurai

yes deadly force would be justifed as they are using deadly force against you and others. They are also stealing my money (which is in the bank with everyone else's) that I worked for. I wouldn't tell them to drop weapons, they have me outnumbered. I would start taking them out as fast as I could if I thought I had a true advantage.
if I die, then I die.

Hope Im not one of the patrons in the bank when you decide to play hero and get me killed

WildcomeondougenoughAlaska

 

[Doug.38PR]

^ you might very well die anyway. You are afterall at the hands of armed criminals. Don't tell me you trust them with guns more than you do little ol' me

 

[Wildalaska]

Yes I do

WildifyouputitthatwaywhichisntreallyfairbutunderthecircsgivenyesidosorryAlaska

 

[Doug.38PR]

Okay. I ask, so you told me. You are entitled to your belief.
However, suppose they start searching the hostages/patrons for money (including Doug.38PR and WildAlaska who have their CCWs) or heck, suppose they are downright lunatics who desire to take hostages with them or start killing people. Initially their attention was on the bank teller and you had a window of opportunity to stop them. Now their attention is on you and they have guns trained on you. What do you think is going to happen when they get to you to search, take or kill you?

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

1. Stood up - idiot
2. Challenged them - idiot
3. Didn't consider hidden backup - idiot

Once again - this is why FOF training is needed for really appreciating the Internet scenario.

 

[easyG]

I would not have stood and drew my pistol.
I am not a cop and the money is insured.
They were not shooting anyone.
By attempting to stop the robbery I would be increasing the likelihood of a shootout.

 

[jfrey123]

Wouldn't draw or open fire until a life was taken...

Sorry if that is an unpopular senario with both sides, but that's just the responsibility I feel we hold. Part of the reason our beloved Second Amendment was given was so we can help defend our country from all enemies. I feel a murder is an enemy, and I would feel like it is my responsibility as a ccw'er in that situation to protect life. Who knows, I may actually be defending my own life by taking action. You never know who is going to die when a psychopath opens fire.

Before the robber opens fire on civilians, he is only an armed robber. The only thing he is directly threatening, at this point, is the money. Even if he's saying, "I'll kill everyone in here," those are only words. Now when he does open fire and start hurting people, actions do speak louder than words. I would draw and go for it.

 

[stephen426]

Doug... What state do you live in? If I lived near you, I would move. You are the kind of person that turns people in to anti-gun and gives those who carry a bad name. Grow up and stop playing cops and robbers. :barf: