Scalia guns may be regulated

I understand the reality, but my naive world view is that if we allow the people who interpret the laws to forget what the law actually says and originally meant, then we're contributing to the construction of the house of cards. I certainly can't force a Supreme Court justice to vote according to my perception of what the Constitution says, and it's beyond unlikely that I'll be nominated as a justice, so the best I can do is try to hold their feet to the fire and encourage others to do the same. We need to keep reminding them that we are out here and that we CAN read.

If we collectively stop advocating for what the 2nd Amendment really says and really meant at the time it was written, then we may as well snuggle up with the anti-gun advocates and admit that the Constitution is a "living document," to be interpreted according to the whims of the moment rather than according to its original intent.
 

gc70

New member
Supreme Court Justices do not miraculously know everything about every possible topic and Scalia does not know everything about guns and the original meaning of the Second Amendment.

To a large degree, Supreme Court Justices use information from prior cases and decisions and the briefs submitted for particular cases. Scalia and the other Justices have a good deal of information that was critical to the questions posed by Heller and McDonald. But the questions posed in those cases did not cover the totality of Second Amendment history or meaning. As other case come before the Court, the Justices will get additional information to help them decide the specific questions of those cases. The Second Amendment is far from fully defined in the judicial system.
 

JerryM

New member
I watched the interview, and I am not surprised or disappointed. I was never convinced that the 2nd or any Amendment is without some restrictions. Freedom of speech is not unrestricted nor should it be, and the same goes for the 2nd.

There are people I do not believe should own or even have access to firearms, and some firearms that the average citizen should not have unrestricted access to. I am thinking mostly about full auto and rocket launcher type weapons. Restrictions are required regarding the access and ownership to such weapons.

I do not think the mentally ill should have unrestricted rights re weapons, and agree with age restrictions.
There is a different mind-set among the youth than 50 years ago.

So overall I expected Justice Scalia to say what he did, and am not disappointed.

Jerry
 

Al Norris

Moderator Emeritus
Nothing that Scalia said in this interview was inconsistent with what he wrote in Heller.

jtmckinney said:
Also maybe his real intent was to sell his book. May have succedded with me as I am interested in the way the SCOTUS works, maybe this would shed some light on that.

This!

If anyone had bothered to look beyond the sound bytes, you would have seen that this was one of many stops to hawk his new book.
 

Luger_carbine

New member
The headline could have read:

Scalia: "No right to privacy in the constitution"

or

Scalia: "Death penalty not cruel"

But that doesn't generate web hits and get people talking... :rolleyes:
 

Hook686

New member
The Constitution allows for gun control ???

Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia on Sunday renewed his criticism of Chief Justice John Roberts' reasoning in upholding President Barack Obama's 2010 healthcare law and also said the Constitution undoubtedly permits some gun control.

http://news.yahoo.com/justice-scalia-steps-criticism-healthcare-ruling-201206215.html

I also found it interesting that the judge acknowledged he had a political agenda during his tenure on the court:

"Of course, I would not like to be replaced by someone who immediately sets about undoing everything that I've tried to do for 25 years, 26 years, sure. I mean, I shouldn't have to tell you that. Unless you think I'm a fool."

It bothers me that a judge would boldly state that he tried to accomplishe an agenda rather than adjudicate strickly based upon rule of law.

It bothers me even more when a conservative justice indicates that he thinks the constitution allows for gun control.

When will this happen do you think ?
 

BlueTrain

New member
Yeah, here we go again. People are interpreting the "well-regulated" part to mean "un-regulated."

That's called double-speak.
 

JimPage

New member
Hook: I'm giving Scalia the benefit of believing that he is refering to his maintaining a strict interpretation of the Constitution, not a political agenda. We have seen some justices re-interpret or misinterpret the Constitution, and a different justice could well undo what Scalia tried to do by abiding by his conscience and devotion to the Constitution.
 

spacecoast

New member
His clarification seems to be:

"I mean, obviously, the amendment does not apply to arms that cannot be hand-carried. It's to 'keep and bear' (arms). So, it doesn't apply to cannons. But I suppose there are handheld rocket launchers that can bring down airplanes that will have to be ... decided."

I guess if I had a tank in the shed or a tarp-covered howitzer or a heavy machine gun mounted in the back of my SUV I might be concerned about how Scalia would rule...
 

JimPage

New member
BlueTrain: "Well regulated" at the time the Constitution was adopted referred to equipment not to "rules or laws."
 

BPowderkeg

Moderator
why do we or any judge need to interpret, re-interpret or misinterpret the Constitution.., why can't it be read and understand the words as written ?

guns may be regulated ?

A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.

is this word, "REGULATED" in the 2nd amendment what he may be referring to ??

that is my guess.., what say ya'll ??
 

thallub

New member
It bothers me that a judge would boldly state that he tried to accomplishe an agenda rather than adjudicate strickly based upon rule of law.


i don't see any such indication in that statement.
 

ScottRiqui

New member
why do we or any judge need to interpret, re-interpret or misinterpret the Constitution.., why can't it be read and understand the words as written ?

guns may be regulated ?

A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.

is this word, "REGULATED" in the 2nd amendment what he may be referring to ??

that is my guess.., what say ya'll ??

The common meaning of the word "regulated" has changed since the Constitution was written. Used to be, "regulating" something simply meant ensuring that it operated as it was supposed to. In the case of a militia, "well-regulated" would mean that it has the men, supplies and training necessary to perform its function.

In short, "regulation" and "regulations" aren't the same thing.
 
Posted on the Examiner . . .

http://www.examiner.com/article/sca...138858839_23449331_10151074025573839#f3ad11c5

One test the courts have employed in Heller vs DC and previous cases to decide what arms are protected is the 'common use' test.

It goes something like this: If an arm is contemporarily in common use, if it is a bearable arm, then it is presumptively protected by the second amendment.

This is important, because for the amendment to have it's intended effect. the arms that are owned and carried must be sufficient to counteract the arms that they are intended to oppose.

One traditionally lawful use of firearms is to defend against violent crime. Requiring citizens to carry arms that have inferior performance characteristics, with magazine capacity restrictions for example, would eviscerate the amendment for one of it's core purposes.

Highly trained police routinely exceed 10, 20 or even 30 rounds of ammunition subduing a single violent subject. Lethal encounters are often rapidly evolving, dynamic events where many shots may miss their mark. An assailant may have body armor or drugs on board which may delay his response to defensive gunfire.

A typical citizen will not have the advantages that a police officer has in terms of protective gear, radio backup, multiple force options, and years of experience.

In defending one's family, it is not reasonable expect a citizen to accomplish with ten rounds what a police officer cannot with all of his or her built-in advantages.

Frighteningly common home invasions usually involve multiple armed intruders. In such circumstances, having a restricted 10-round magazine can get innocent people killed.

Assault Weapons:
Except for the issue of magazine capacity, there is NO difference in the performance characteristics between semi-automatic rifles designed for hunting and those with a more military appearance.

The 5.56 NATO/.223 Remington rounds used in what are popularly dubbed 'assault rifles' are considered too inferior for humane deer hunting in many states.

That statement is not intended to underplay the lethality of any rifle round, but it is intended to debunk the false idea that military-style semi-automatic rifles are somehow overpowered and inappropriate for civilian use.

Indeed, the 5.56/.223 round is considered an urban defense round due to it's significant loss of lethality after penetrating building material. Liability conscious police agencies favor the AR15 rifles precisely for this attribute.

When the court cases finally come, the high court will look at these issues very carefully, not through the lens of media hype and inflammatory monikers like 'assault weapon'.

The Second Amendment serves many purposes. It protects hunting, self-defense, defense of community, it's intended as a final safeguard against any future tyrannical government, and it's emblematic of the fact that we are a self-governed people.

But it's only specifically enumerated purpose, announced in it's first clause, is to protect the ability of a state to raise a militia of citizens. These citizens would be expected to bring their own weapons that are in common use. In the US, the most popular and ubiquitous semi-automatic rifle by a vast margin, is the AR-15 with standard 20 and 30 round magazines. This is the civilian version of the military's M4/M16 rifle.

For the reasons I have stated here, this is and ought to remain the MOST protected arm in the land.

-Christopher J Hoffman
7/30/12
 

BlueTrain

New member
No, I believe the "well-regulated" part was that the militia be under government control. Clearly! They didn't want private armies. Your opinion may differ but I don't want private armies, either.
 

Don H

New member
BPowderkeg said:
why do we or any judge need to interpret, re-interpret or misinterpret the Constitution.., why can't it be read and understand the words as written ?
Because the meanings of words and phrases change over time as a language evolves and as technological advances are made. For example, does the word "Arms" as used in the Second Amendment include all weapons used by the military and allow a person to possess biological and chemical weapons, among the more prosaic weapons such as firearms?
 

ScottRiqui

New member
I would argue that coming fresh off a revolution of their own, the writers of the Constitution understood the importance of the citizenry having the means to resist a tyrannical government should the need arise. I don't think that aligns very well with the idea that "well regulated" was intended to mandate government control over the armed citizenry.

But, I'm no Constitutional scholar, and I'm always happy to hear others' opinions.
 
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