Savage 16 accuracy problem

[homesick]

I posted this on another blog and recieved some feed back but nothing I have not tried so looking to see if any one here can help. I have a Savage model 16 in 243 Win. The rifle has accutrigger,accustock, etc. it's one of the top of the line rifles. Here's what I have tried in it Hornady Super performance, Federal Fusion, Win all factory. I have also tried handloads with RL 15 , IMR 4350 and IMR 4831 bullets from 87 gr to 100 gr. Bullets Nosler, Hornady and Sierra. Brass is new Winchester, primers are CCI 200.
Scopes have been either a B & L 6 X 24 with a mil dot or a Burris 6 X 24 std cross hair. I have put had scopes on other rifles and they are good. I removed Weaver bases and put Leupold bases and rings on. I have checked and rechecked screws, checked barrel clearance it is free floated. Barrel crown is good.
Here's the issue the best 3 shot group I have gotten is 1 1/4" one time only most groups are 2" plus and several are 3" . Last week end I shot a group the 1st shot was 2" high over bulls eye, 2nd shot was 3.5" right 3rd shot was back over near 1st shot so shot a 4th 3.5" to right near 2nd shot.
My question is has any one had this terrible performance before, what do you suggest? Just a note I bought my daughter a Savage Axis muddy Girl 243 Win that shoots 100 gr factory into 1" MOA consistently. Guess I should have bought a Axis (that is not funny) .
I did send Savage customer service an email Monday and have not heard from them as of yet. I'm sure they have much more important things to address or else they don't care. I'm guessing they really don't care.
Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Also the rifle has about 100 rounds through it and was new when I bought it.

 

[taylorce1]

Assuming you're a competent reloader, ruled out copper or other fouling, the scopes shot well on the other rifles, you have the action screws properly torqued, and your rings and bases aren't loose I'd say it's time for a new barrel. While Savage rifles generally shoot well out of the box they can let a lemon slip out from time to time. If it's a fairly new rifle hopefully Savage will replace it for you.

 

[PlatinumCore16]

I would firstly, check the accustock. Make sure it's not pressing on the barrel. (assuming you have already done this). Also I would check the action/mag/feeding lip.

You are doing these groups at 100yds?

Secondly, get ahold of Savage customer service. You've obviously been working hard to get consistent cartridges. The Hornady match I would have expected to do well. I would call them and tell them what the problem is. Savage has been known to be slow, just do a search for "Savage CS/Customer Service", but they do get it right.

 

[jmr40]

The problem is the tiny front objectives on your scopes!

A 6X24 would describe a fixed 6X scope with a 24mm front objective. I assume you actually have variable scopes with 6-24X magnification. The number after the X is the objective size if listed such as 6-24X50 or 3-9X40 etc. If the objective size isn't listed it is written 6-24X or 3-9X etc. Fixed power scopes are simply 4X, 6X or 10X. If the objective size is listed it is written 4X40 or 6X40 etc.

But seriously, it appears you have done everything possible and the ball is in Savage's court now. Hopefully they will make things right. It is extremely rare to find a Savage that doesn't shoot well.

 

[std7mag]

Could your screws be overtorqued?

Rings 15-20 inch lb
20-25 inch lb ring to base.
Ditto base to reciever.

Have you tried tuning the action screws?

Make sure recoil lug seated. Tighten front screw to 30 inch lb.
Rear screw to 5 inch lb. Shoot 3-5 rounds, tighten rear screw by 5 inch lb. Repeat till 30 inch lb.
Set torque to smallest group.

 

[AllenJ]

My question is has any one had this terrible performance before, what do you suggest?

Yes I have, and it was on a custom rifle. It seemed to almost always put 2 shots very close and one flyer, in no particular order, on three shot groups, and it drove me crazy. Like you I checked everything, torqued and re-torqued screws even tried different amounts of torque for the stock screws. It finally dawned on me that since it was shooting the groups so consistently maybe the stock/action were the problem. I skim bed the stock and that was it, the rifle shoots great now. There are lots of videos on YouTube on bedding an action.

 

[tobnpr]

Too many variables still that can affect accuracy.
I second the posts above re: action screw torque, and stock/action fitment (bedding) to rule out first. You can't claim a "bad" barrel until the rest is ruled out.

http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/savage-action-screw-torque-tuning/

I'm not a fan of the Tupperware stocks, and if you can DIY you should skim bed it and check for improvement. Usually, "shotgun" groups with no discernible patterning is due to movement of the action in the stock.

 

[RC20]

I have a Save pencil barrel that throw the first shot 1 1/14 to the upper right, then two together.

Ok to hunt with, not to target shoot with.

Bad barrel, contact Savage, they have a good return policy.

Frankly I would not buy anything that was not Varmint contour.

You should be able to get a 5 shot group that is 1 1/4.

 

[homesick]

Thanks for all your suggestions you have given me a couple things to try. and to clear up the scope power it is a 6X24X44 and the range is 100 yds.
I still have not heard from Savage I guess their email is down! I'm not upset with the rifle as I kinda like the challenge.

 

[Dranrab]

That is certainly atypical for Savage. I am interested in seeing how this turns out for you. Based on what I have read Savage could stand to put more emphasis on customer service.

 

[RC20]

My interaction was fine.

I screwed up a part on a rifle under warranty.

They sent it to me at no charge.

The disagreements are they shoot a rifle and it meets the spec with their ammo.

That then gets into the shooter, his scope etc.

If its really bad they replace.

 

[T. O'Heir]

"...guessing they really don't care..." Nobody sits beside the phone or computer waiting for my calls either. The thing under warrantee? All the stock screws tight? What's the trigger pull? It BNIB when you got it? You clean it before shooting?
"...it is free floated..." That guarantees nothing. Mind you, consistent 1.25" to 3" groups is sufficient deer sized game accuracy. A 16 is a deer rifle, but it sounds like it has a bedding issue. That may very well have to do with it being floated too. Not all rifles like it. Put a bit of business card thick cardboard into the barrel channel just aft of the end of the forestock and try it. Might be the synthetic stock too.
24X is far too high. The 1 in 9.25 rifling will prefer heavy bullets.
Call 'em.
800-370-0708
8:00AM – 5:00PM EST
Monday – Friday

 

[Mobuck]

How often and in what way do you clean the bore?

"Also the rifle has about 100 rounds through it and was new when I bought it."

You've tried all the mentioned loads and only fired 100 rounds? I've seen rifles that demanded several "fouling shots" with the ammo being tested before they settled down to group well. Throwing a few random bullets at the target isn't usually the key to small groups.

 

[hps1]

Had similar issues w/a .308 Savage scout. I bought it from a fellow who found that he couldn't see iron sights after only 20 rounds down the tube and didn't need another scoped .308. I did, so we got together.

I have several Savage rifles, all of which copper foul pretty quickly, but all will shoot < moa with the right load and, since I clean thoroughly after every hunt or range session, have not fouled sufficiently to affect accuracy. The scout would shoot 2-4 shots < moa, then throw one out 1-2" and that was on the good loads.

Checked all the usual things mentioned above, and finally gave the barrel a very thorough cleaning. I don't have a bore scope but cleaned after every range session using Shooter's Choice, Kroil, Hoppe's Benchrest, Sweats and a couple of different foaming bore cleaners........alternately, of course......until no blue patches.

Finally resorted to JB paste and Gold Medallion abrasives following the conventional methods above, and scrubbed, and scrubbed, and...........you get the idea. You would not believe the black that came out of that barrel. Scrubbed every day for two weeks but the rifle is shooting well now. I suspect there is a rough spot somewhere in the bore that is invisible w/o a scope but that is picking up some copper that had picked up quite an accumulation of copper/& powder fouling.

I now clean using conventional cleaners, but follow with just a few strokes w/GM or JB paste and am getting < moa with three different loads. A friend is going to bring his scope over and we'll take a look down the bore when he gets time.

One other thing I didn't see mentioned is to be sure your front base screws are not bottoming out on the barrel.

Regards,
hps

 

[precision_shooter]

Didn't see it mentioned, what rest are you using on the front of the rifle? Sandbags, bipod?

My suggestion is to try a different front rest and different position of the rest. Could be the stock flexing on the fore end and creating an inconsistent pressure point on the barrel affecting the harmonics and throwing shots the way you are describing.

 

[Dufus]

It took Savage about 9 days to address my query, but once I got in there, it was balls to the wall. I got the rifle to UPS the same day the lady answered me. She emailed me a UPS shipping label and all I had to do was remove the scope, box it up, and deliver to UPS. I suspect that I will get a new barrel.

 

[Don Fischer]

I didn't see it mentioned anywhere. Did you check the bedding in the action? How about the recoil lug?

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Taking the shooter out of the equation, something is causing the barrel to move around too much IMHO. Even though you have less rounds than most to get a load that shoot's good or even smooth out the chatter marks.

If it's not the screws then i would be checking barrel clearance in free float (something touching) In moist bolt actions. Pull that stock and check for obvious defects from factory or assembly. Make sure the barrel has plenty of clearance in free float to the lug even when resting on a bag. I like to use a notebook paper folded twice (4 thick).

That has the floating bolt head right? Make sure it's not binding.

Finally slug the bore and mind gaps in tension on slug as you go. Bore size may be off throughout or in one large spot along the length.

 

[precision_shooter]

Or wait for Savage to check it and send it back...

 

[homesick]

Thanks for all the feed back. I got the rifle back from gun smith today he did all the checks except bore scope, all looked good. Took it to the range and got same results 2 1/4" MOA. All factory loads today 100 gr.
In my limited experience as a hand loader of 49 years, I have found I don't need to burn up a box of bullets pounds of powder a hundred primers to figure out if a rifle is going to like a load combo. Most rifles will show a liking to a given combo and I key in on that. Just a note here when I say 100 rds thru the rifle that is an approximate number it may be 90 or 115 but the fact of the matter is only on 3 shot group was even close to 1" MOA totally not exceptable.
As for cleaning breech end, not brush and if I do deem necessary nylon only, most of the time Butches and only on rear occasion JB Bore cleaner.
As for rest, tri pod with sand bags in back or all bags.
The barrel is floated, I have considered trying some tip end pressure as I have had some success with this method in the past.
On the positive side I did shot my newly acquired Savage Axis 22-250 HB with a high dollar BSA 6X24X??? total package cost $245.00. Using loads from my 700 VSSF that high dollar Savage shot 3/4" MOA. I'm not sure how good that one will be when I work with it a bit.
House rules for accuracy
heavy barrel must shoot 1/2" MOA
sporter weight must shoot 1" MOA
22s depends on action
exceptions
guns given to me have no accuracy requirements
Rem 760 30-06
Rem model 7 35 Rem
Win model 70 ftw 270
Ruger no 1 458 win