Sanctuary county

458winshooter said:
I would also like to state that all these county commissioners either are or have lawyers working for them so to make this statement they must know more about the legalities of it than most of us.
I have to disagree with you.

Sadly, I can't find the video that best demonstrates this, but I have mentioned it in other discussions here. Perhaps a year or two ago, I saw a video on Youtube of a meeting of some city council or county board at which a proposed anti-gun ordinance was being discussed. A gentleman from the audience got his turn at the public microphone and reminded the members of the legislative panel that the State (whichever state it was) had a firearms preemption law so, if they enacted the proposed law, it would be null, void, and unenforceable. This prompted one of the members of the legislative body (a male, probably in his 30s or early 40s) to make an impassioned speech to the effect that he didn't care if the law could be enforced or not, he was going to vote for it "because we've got to do something."

You decide if you think that was virtue signaling, putting on a show to get votes, or just a demonstration of thinking so addled that he probably should not have been allowed to graduate high school. Whatever his thinking and his motives, the fact was that this was a legislator who was willing to go on record as voting for a law that he knew was illegal. They are out there; do not fall into the trap of thinking that "they must know more about the legalities of it than most of us." The fact is that many of us know more about laws and the Constitution than a great many of our elected [so-called] representatives.
 
For the third time I ask what is the answer then?

Why are we obligated to provide "the answer?" This is a rhetorical tactic I hear all the time from the gun-control lobby: "if you don't want [background checks/bans/registration], what's your solution?"

We can criticize a bad policy on its own merits. It's not a zero-sum game, and we're not required to offer up an alternative to do so.
 
458winshooter said:
More negative responses but no suggestions. For the third time I ask what is the answer then?
I don't think pointing out that an illegal "law" that can't be enforced, or a resolution that says nothing and does nothing, is a dumb idea is "negativity." That said, I agree with Tom Servo. Why am I (or we) obligated to provide answers to problems we didn't create?

More to the point, you wrote, "[W]hat is the answer then?" "The" is a singular modifier, implying that there is ONE answer. I respectfully submit that the problem of a violent society (meaning "violence," not limited to "gun violence") is a complex issue that does not lend itself to any single, simple answer. If there were a simple, single answer I'm sure someone would have proposed it before now. But ... there isn't a single, simple answer.

My answer for the moment is that we need to put more pressure on the media and the politicians to stop harping on "gun violence" and start addressing the fact that too many people in today's world look at violence (of some kind, and definitely NOT limited to gun violence) as the first resort in any sort of dispute or disagreement.
 

Spats McGee

Administrator
. . . . What I am seeing is that y'all seem unwilling to do anything unless you can claim some legal precedent....
This is Law & Civil Rights. Precedent is kind of a big deal in this forum.

. . . .I would also like to state that all these county commissioners either are or have lawyers working for them so to make this statement they must know more about the legalities of it than most of us....
I wouldn't bet on that. My experience with local politicians (which amounts to about 10 years of being their lawyer) is that most of them have only slightly more than a passing familiarity with the law. They like to rely heavily on their lawyers to find them ways to get what they want, not necessarily to figure out if what they want is either legal or a good idea.
This is a solid red county so there is no need to put on a show for votes....
From the looks of the resolution, that's exactly what it was. A show for votes. There is actually no mechanism in it, at all. To paraphrase, it says: (1) The General Assembly passed a red flag law; and (2) We're a 2nd Amendment sanctuary city. It does not even go so far as to say "We think RFLs are bad."

ETA: I'm saddened to hear that Nashville has become a sanctuary city. I lived there years ago and have very fond memories of it. With that said, I'm afraid that Little Rock is on its way to becoming a sanctuary city, as well, given our BoD/gov't composition.
 

MTT TL

New member
The man has been earning a million dollars a year for some time, and he has a cushy retirement package in place. If the man had a shred of decency and/or if he cared even a little bit about the NRA and its members and mission ... he would already have retired.

It's not about the money, it is about the power. He won't quit until he has sucked all the life out of the organization.
 

44 AMP

Staff
First off, the deeds and misdeeds of NRA leadership are off topic for this thread.

next, there is this,
They could pass a resolution naming the Brady Campaign and EGS as a hate groups. They would be named as prejudicial, bigoted and intolerant organizations that engage in discriminatory practices that puts the lives of people in danger. They can then demand the county not do business with them or of their 84 members nationwide.

This is exactly what the San Francisco Board of Supervisors has done, with the NRA, except they didn't say "hate group" they used the phrase "Domestic Terrorist".

We think it was a stupid idea for them (and apparently they are being sued) and it would be an equally stupid idea for us.

A personal gripe here, the whole "red/blue" thing now in common use, bothers me. For generations, worldwide, red has been the chosen color of identification with Communism. I think adopting the colors used by a news group (ABC??) during one election some time ago, identifying Republican areas as "red" and Democrat as blue on their map was a slick ploy on their part, turning the party most associated with socialism and communism from red to blue. I don't think we should be repeating that, but it seems entrenched now, so all I can do is gripe a bit, and preach to the choir.

I am fully in agreement that any government body can make statements about what they feel, and what they think ought to be done, WITHOUT making it any kind of law. Send a message, fine. make it a law just to send a message, its folly.

As many have noted before, when you make a law that is meaningless, one that has "no teeth" and/or is impossible to enforce, all it does is create more scofflaw behavior, and that diminishes the actual valid laws to a degree that I cannot measure, but believe exists, nonetheless.

Traditionally, from the Middle Ages on, if you claimed the right of "sanctuary" it meant the church would not allow officers of the crown to enter the church and seize your person, AS LONG as you remained in the church.

Today it's being used to describe places where the local government is refusing to enforce laws they disagree with. This does not prevent other law enforcement people from enforcing those laws within the jurisdiction of the local government. it does not "protect" people from that. All it does is say the LOCAL authorities won't be doing the enforcement.

In other words, today, the "church" won't kick you out, but they won't stop the "crown authorities" from coming in and arresting you.

Once again, we see a term that has been held to have one meaning for centuries, being used to mean something else, today, with the bulk of people still thinking it means what it always did, and that is simply, not the case, today.

Pass a resolution, make a statement, all fine, but don't claim you are protecting people, when you aren't.

What is the answer to the endless propaganda we are bombarded with? I don't have one, (or rather one that would be both legal and socially accepted, :rolleyes:) all we can really do is lead by example and clearly state how their side is propaganda and our side is the truth.

However, the other side says exactly the same thing, and they tell very convincing lies, much better than we tell the truth.
 

MTT TL

New member
In other words, today, the "church" won't kick you out, but they won't stop the "crown authorities" from coming in and arresting you.

This is actually untrue.

https://patch.com/california/studiocity/la-sheriff-kick-ice-agents-out-county-jails-years-end

This is exactly what the San Francisco Board of Supervisors has done, with the NRA, except they didn't say "hate group" they used the phrase "Domestic Terrorist".

We think it was a stupid idea for them (and apparently they are being sued) and it would be an equally stupid idea for us.

It does not convey well in 2019, but this is at least partly satire.

What is the answer to the endless propaganda we are bombarded with? I don't have one, (or rather one that would be both legal and socially accepted, ) all we can really do is lead by example and clearly state how their side is propaganda and our side is the truth.

On the playground, with no adults present, he who shouts loudest and has the most friends shouting with him normally wins. I haven't seen a notable adult voice in this debate in nearly 20 years. Every year it gets a little more immature as noted by this thread.
 

44 AMP

Staff
In other words, today, the "church" won't kick you out, but they won't stop the "crown authorities" from coming in and arresting you.
This is actually untrue.

https://patch.com/california/studioc...ails-years-end

ok, I see I should amend the statement to say that SOME places won't let "crown authorities" into the church building, but they won't stop them operating in the parish the church serves.

in other words, the county sheriff might bar ICE officials from his jail, but can't (won't?) stop them from operating on the street in "his" county.

Is this essentially correct as you see it?
 
I wonder if a county sheriff even has the legal authority to bar federal agents from his jail. The feds might not want to push the issue, but I sort of doubt the sheriff would win if the feds decided to make an issue of it.
 

USNRet93

New member
I wonder if a county sheriff even has the legal authority to bar federal agents from his jail. The feds might not want to push the issue, but I sort of doubt the sheriff would win if the feds decided to make an issue of it.

They do not.

Resolutions passed at the state and county level do not supersede a law passed by the federal government.
 
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