Safest Glock Gen5 trigger enhancements

[JohnKSa]

THEREFORE, an aftermarket get like Apex that removes travel actually isn't making the changing the drop safety or sear/firing pin block both fail issue?

This is a separate issue from the one about stored energy in the striker spring.

If there is enough reduction in trigger travel, the internal passive safeties may be disabled. This is a problem because those are there to prevent things like inertia operation of the mechanism. As in, when the gun is dropped, inertia can operate on the parts of the mechanism and result in the same kind of force being applied to the fire control parts as if the trigger were pressed normally. The passive safeties prevent that, but if they are disabled then they can't do their job.

 

[wild cat mccane]

So the question is then does a "less aggressive" aftermarket trigger like the Apex disable #2 and #3 from this:

https://us.glock.com/en/learn/glock-pistols/safe-action-system

Glock says as the trigger moves, the trigger bar lowers, deactivating the drop safety of the system.

Guess the question is now, does the Apex drop in enhanced trigger do that?

 

[JohnKSa]

None of them SHOULD, but there have been instances of some aftermarket triggers that do.

On another forum, a person installed a Timney trigger in their Glock and found that it was dimpling primers during drop testing.

I don't know if that's a problem with all Timney triggers in all Glocks, or if that was just an issue where variations in the parts and the guns added up just right to cause the issue.

It's just something to be aware of. If the design alters the trigger travel, there's a chance that it will alter it too much. The gun needs to be thoroughly tested after installation to insure it is still drop safe.

 

[wild cat mccane]

I was convinced on this forum that the Timmy wasn't for me.

I'm thinking Apex because I haven't seen the same break down/slide cut demonstrations like the Timmy problem.

But I'm open to throw away the Apex idea too.


Remember how Canik had the recall warning that drop testing would lead to the safety mechanisms for the drop test being destroyed? https://www.canikusa.com/severe-duty-upgrade


How does one test to make sure without damaging the frame or the internal parts?

Thanks all!

I'm getting the message, I really am, that altering it COULD defeat what I want to keep. I just want to learn the if people know one is safe or how to test if it remains safe.

 

[TunnelRat]

I'm getting the message, I really am, that altering it COULD defeat what I want to keep. I just want to learn the if people know one is safe or how to test if it remains safe.

You need someone intimately familiar with the aftermarket trigger in question. But even then, as has been explained, what is or isn’t “remains safe” can be open to interpretation. If the trigger requires 1mm less travel to be free of the drop safety then that is by definition less safe, but does that matter to you personally from a practical standpoint? At some level you have to make the determination, not us, as you are the person using the firearm. As for the testing, most of these companies are aware of potential liability, or they should be. Ask them about what, if any, testing they have done to determine if their product has maintained factory safety levels.


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[TunnelRat]

Another thought here is if this concerns you, have an armorer or gunsmith do the install.

I have ordered Apex parts for an M&P in the past where after install the pistol wouldn’t function. In that case the loop at the rear of the trigger bar needed to be expanded in order for the sear to rotate enough to release the striker. Tolerance stacking can happen and between quality control with the factory parts still in the pistol and quality control with the aftermarket parts you can have interactions between those that are less than ideal. Having someone with some experience do the install can help.

 

[jetinteriorguy]

Another thought here is if this concerns you, have an armorer or gunsmith do the install.

I have ordered Apex parts for an M&P in the past where after install the pistol wouldn’t function. In that case the loop at the rear of the trigger bar needed to be expanded in order for the sear to rotate enough to release the striker. Tolerance stacking can happen and between quality control with the factory parts still in the pistol and quality control with the aftermarket parts you can have interactions between those that are less than ideal. Having someone with some experience do the install can help.

I had this experience when installing the Apex trigger in my M&P. I just bent the wire loop a little at a time and tested by dry firing until it worked reliably. Since then I’ve put thousands of rounds through it without issues. As far as it’s affect on safety if dropped, I can’t comment on that since I’ve never tested it. In 60 years of hunting and shooting I’ve never dropped a gun, so I don’t worry much about it. I’m not too keen on banging my gun around to test it.

 

[wild cat mccane]

I reached out to Apex about #2 and #3 safety areas from Glock and they just responded back with a copy and paste of the page for the kit. Doh.

Probably not a technical person and it does say on that page that the Apex kit will not change the internal safeties... but it sounds like that is up for debate

 

[TunnelRat]

I had this experience when installing the Apex trigger in my M&P. I just bent the wire loop a little at a time and tested by dry firing until it worked reliably. Since then I’ve put thousands of rounds through it without issues. As far as it’s affect on safety if dropped, I can’t comment on that since I’ve never tested it. In 60 years of hunting and shooting I’ve never dropped a gun, so I don’t worry much about it. I’m not too keen on banging my gun around to test it.

That’s exactly what I did to troubleshoot mine.

Over the years I have had a number of “drop in” parts that didn’t live up to the name (in fairness to the companies, like I mentioned before tolerance stacking happens). Sometimes it was very minor tweaking, sometimes it was not so minor. Thats the nature of changing a pistol from factory configuration, it isn’t always straightforward, which was why I mentioned maybe having an armorer or gunsmith do the install if the person was concerned about the result.


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[TunnelRat]

I reached out to Apex about #2 and #3 safety areas from Glock and they just responded back with a copy and paste of the page for the kit. Doh.

Probably not a technical person and it does say on that page that the Apex kit will not change the internal safeties... but it sounds like that is up for debate

Yeah that’s about what I expected. You could try and call and ask to speak to a gunsmith there, but honestly they may just give you the run around. I think Randy Lee is the main gunsmith there (assuming he’s still there).

I find the aftermarket companies are often in an odd space. They don’t want to accept any more liability for their products than absolutely necessary so they generally give a vague technical statement about safety followed up with the “Buyer Beware” standard clause. The thing is the products they sell go into what can be very dangerous devices, so being vague can be problematic.

A lot of this is made more interesting by many of these companies posting videos that show the installation, while at the same time explicitly saying on the packaging that the install should be done by a “qualified gunsmith”. It’s a bit of a dance. They know many people either don’t want to pay for or frankly don’t know a gunsmith (and frankly some people that use that term to refer to themselves aren’t “qualified”, as we’ve seen again and again on this forum), so they provide videos for people to do it themselves. However, some of the companies pretty much stonewall you if you call and ask for assistance with troubleshooting (I had that experience with LTT) and direct you to a gunsmith. Now the videos can help the gunsmith as well, but I think it’s fair to say that many people buy these parts, put the parts in their firearms, and hope for the best. My experience has been that sometimes it can be more trouble than it’s worth.


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[wild cat mccane]

I am going to keep it, but I'm less clear how or when I'll play with the trigger as of right now and if at all.

My best hope was a Walther trigger so I just ended up buying a PPQ to replace the one I sold for a PDP. Bought this today and hope it comes in soon. The G19 and PPQ fill this size for now:

https://www.guns.com/firearms/handg...er-(9x19-para)-semi-auto-15-rounds-4-barrel-?

I'm very much looking forward to the P365 in the coming 4" barrel. That might send the G19 down the road, but might not too.

I may end up, even soon, going with the Apex Gen5 trigger...just became less of an idea as I've warmed up the grip, but not 100% liking it.

Thanks all for the help! I'll post back when I put the Apex kit in.

 

[TunnelRat]

I'm very much looking forward to the P365 in the coming 4" barrel. That might send the G19 down the road, but might not too.

If you mean a Macro with an XL slide, I just this week shot a Macro and swapped my XL slide on it. That combination in no way, imo, recoils like a Glock 19. I shot all of them side by side. Even with the comped slide the Macro still recoils more than a Glock 19, though the comp closes the gap noticeably (between the grip and the comp I think the comp is the biggest difference maker, and also was noticeable when I put that slide on my XL frame).

The Macro grip with the magazine inserted is also noticeably taller than a Glock 19 with the magazine inserted (here’s a picture for emphasis https://www.reddit.com/r/SigSauer/c...urce=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf). I walked away more lukewarm on the Macro grip than when I went into my little experiment and was left once more questioning if it has been worth buying all these pistols when I shoot the Glock 19 so well.



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[wild cat mccane]

Not the Macro. They are coming out with an update of P365 options. The one I going to buy is the 4" non comp barreled with a 17rnd grip. I'm hopeful of creating a 4" with the 10rnd grip.

 

[wild cat mccane]

I hear you. This is my G19 against one of my P365 with the factory 15rnd mag:

I do not care for the 15rnd magazine without the backstrap area. Hopefully a solution exists for this in the future.

 

[TunnelRat]

Not the Macro. They are coming out with an update of P365 options. The one I going to buy is the 4" non comp barreled with a 17rnd grip. I'm hopeful of creating a 4" with the 10rnd grip.

That’s what I said. It would basically be an XL slide on the Macro frame, that’s what I tested. You could extend it out to a 4” barrel and slide (not sure if you’re rounding or if they intend to add a new barrel and slide for another 1/4” as the XL isn’t a 4” barrel) but I don’t think it would make much, if any, difference in recoil. Maybe you’ll get a few more fps.


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[TunnelRat]

To clarify, the Macro as sold doesn’t have an XL slide and barrel, it has the shorter 3.1” barrel with the comped slide (the comped slide is as long as an XL slide). I know a number of people want that longer barrel and slide of the XL on the Macro frame, I’ve read people asking that in a number of places. My point was in testing that combination the larger frame made practically no difference in recoil. If you had larger hands and the larger frame would allow say your whole hand to get on the grip that might be another story, that or if you wanted more capacity and were fine with the size increase. But other than those options I don’t personally think the frame gives you much over the base XL.


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[wild cat mccane]

Yep. The non ported 100% standard 4" barrel/slide that is coming. That's what I want.

No regard to recoil as I'm not going after the comp slide.

 

[Shadow9mm]

The chespest option is a polish job. Take metal polish something like flitz. Apply it to the sear area where the bar contacts. You can use a q-tip to polish, or dry fire 50 times, clean, lubricate, done. The idea is to smooth the wear areas against each other to reduce friction.

I tried the 3.5lb connectors. Glock makes one as well. They call it the minus "-". It did make my trigger feel mushy. I didnt like it.

Glock has several passive safety features that will keep the gun from firing without a deliberate trigger pull. Smoothing or reducing the pull weight will make it easier to pull the trigger, but will not mess up or deactivate any of the safety features.

As far as turning it into a single action gun. Thats impossible. Its a striker fired double action. There is no chaning that. There will always be take up to finish cocking the striker. Can you make it lighter/smoother, yes you can. But it will never be a single action.

 

[TunnelRat]

Yep. The non ported 100% standard 4" barrel/slide that is coming. That's what I want.

No regard to recoil as I'm not going after the comp slide.

I know you’re not going after the comped slide. The experience I shared was my experience both with the comped slide and without the comped slide.

You’re welcome to buy that pistol when it comes out. Shooting that configuration against a Glock 19 shows a notable difference, imo. I was sharing that so you’d have an idea of what to expect going in.


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[wild cat mccane]

Yep. T]I am totally appreciative of your comments too. I think the G19 will be sticking around. I do like it's size. If Glock would make a factory Shield system for the slim size, watch out credit card.