S&W Scandium Revolvers
- Thread starter BarryLee
- Start date
I spent some time trying guns while I was looking for my pocket gun. Th Ti revolver I tried was just a bit too much for me to handle and quite a bit more expensive. I realized that I wasn't going to be able to carry magnum rounds in the thing so I opted for the less expensive .38 +P version with stainless steel barrel and cylinder. The 638 I chose was 3 oz heavier than the Ti version and was significantly easier to handle the second and third shots. I was amazed at how much difference 3 oz makes and the comparison was made at the same range visit. I shot the 638 first and then directly to the Ti version with the same +P ammo. I had planned to shoot magnum loads out of the Ti revolver but stopped at the +P. I never shot the Ti version with magnum loads.
In my testing of the .38 +P I found that the butt of the Ti gun would contact a nerve in the palm of my hand and when I was done shooting my hand would shake for several seconds/minutes after. Follow up shots had to wait until after I reset the gun in my hand as the recoil shifted the gun on each shot. Now that told me that my grip was incorrect. But I also don't know if in a stressful situation I could do things any different.
I am a smallish person with fairly small hands and someone who grips the weapon correctly might be able to do well with the Ti guns. Just my experience.
In my testing of the .38 +P I found that the butt of the Ti gun would contact a nerve in the palm of my hand and when I was done shooting my hand would shake for several seconds/minutes after. Follow up shots had to wait until after I reset the gun in my hand as the recoil shifted the gun on each shot. Now that told me that my grip was incorrect. But I also don't know if in a stressful situation I could do things any different.
I am a smallish person with fairly small hands and someone who grips the weapon correctly might be able to do well with the Ti guns. Just my experience.
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Love my 340PD
I've got a 340PD. Love it. Both IWB and pocket carry, I barely know its there.
When I go to the range, I generally shoot 50 or so rounds of 38, then 25 or so of the 357 self defense load I carry. No problems for me.
You know you're shooting the weapon, but I wouldn't say it beats me up too badly. No problems for me with stinging or cutting or bruising, etc. I'm a normal size guy with normal hands. I have the hogue boot grips, and they fit me fine.
Would I take it to the range and shoot 200 rounds of max power 357 every day? No. But I didn't purchase this weapon as a range gun, or a target gun, or a plinking gun. I purchased it so that I could have a small, light, take it with me everywhere self defense weapon. For me, it fills that role perfectly. Along that line, I prefer the hammerless DAO, since I want to be able to draw and fire, and not have to think about whether the safety is on or off, did I chamber a round, will the hammer catch on something, etc.
As all the other posters have said, its really a personal decision and what fits you and you are comfortable with. I love mine, and would simply say, I hear everyone's posts about how unpleasant it is to shoot, but thats not my experience, and I'm not sure I'd change my decision even if it were.
I will say I take a lot of ribbing from my friends, most of whom carry either compact or even full size 9mm/45 semi-autos. Its great that those work for them - they don't for me. Go with whats right for you.
I've got a 340PD. Love it. Both IWB and pocket carry, I barely know its there.
When I go to the range, I generally shoot 50 or so rounds of 38, then 25 or so of the 357 self defense load I carry. No problems for me.
You know you're shooting the weapon, but I wouldn't say it beats me up too badly. No problems for me with stinging or cutting or bruising, etc. I'm a normal size guy with normal hands. I have the hogue boot grips, and they fit me fine.
Would I take it to the range and shoot 200 rounds of max power 357 every day? No. But I didn't purchase this weapon as a range gun, or a target gun, or a plinking gun. I purchased it so that I could have a small, light, take it with me everywhere self defense weapon. For me, it fills that role perfectly. Along that line, I prefer the hammerless DAO, since I want to be able to draw and fire, and not have to think about whether the safety is on or off, did I chamber a round, will the hammer catch on something, etc.
As all the other posters have said, its really a personal decision and what fits you and you are comfortable with. I love mine, and would simply say, I hear everyone's posts about how unpleasant it is to shoot, but thats not my experience, and I'm not sure I'd change my decision even if it were.
I will say I take a lot of ribbing from my friends, most of whom carry either compact or even full size 9mm/45 semi-autos. Its great that those work for them - they don't for me. Go with whats right for you.
I've got the M&P 340. Sometimes I'm curious as to what having single action would be like since it has a trigger like all other j-frames. But from what I understand there isn't much of a place for single action in a defensive shooting with a 2 inch barrel and I do appreciate the fast draw the 340 gives me out of a pocket. No problems with the gun. I really like that XS tritium sight up front.
I also have a 642. I shoot mostly 38 special. I'll tell you shooting a 642 with a heavy bullet (158 grain) is a lot harder on your hand than shooting the 340 with a light bullet (125). I hadn't tried light bullets until I got the M&P and it was surprisingly pleasant in comparison. I'm pretty sure I could shoot light factory loads all day. I have shot magnums out of the 340 and with the grip setup at the time (factory boot grip, exposed back strap) it didn't hurt so much as make my hand feel weak/clumsy as the nerves took a beating.
Bullet weight and grip choice can put a lot of people's fears about the scandium frames to rest I think. Except the price tag.
I also have a 642. I shoot mostly 38 special. I'll tell you shooting a 642 with a heavy bullet (158 grain) is a lot harder on your hand than shooting the 340 with a light bullet (125). I hadn't tried light bullets until I got the M&P and it was surprisingly pleasant in comparison. I'm pretty sure I could shoot light factory loads all day. I have shot magnums out of the 340 and with the grip setup at the time (factory boot grip, exposed back strap) it didn't hurt so much as make my hand feel weak/clumsy as the nerves took a beating.
Bullet weight and grip choice can put a lot of people's fears about the scandium frames to rest I think. Except the price tag.
orionengnr
New member
I have owned a 360, two 340s and a 325.
All are long gone, and not missed in the slightest.
The 360/340s were downright brutal with "real" .357 Mag rounds, and merely nasty with any decent .38 Spls.
I also had a 396, which is also long gone.
The 325 and 396 were merely unpleasant with "real" .45acp/.44SPL SD loads.
Ultra-lightweight revolvers are great to carry, but very few people will shoot them anywhere near often enough to attain/maintain any degree of proficiency.
Each of mine was bought used with a few rounds through it, and there are many more for sale out there in a similar condition.
The guy who bought my 360 fired it once (about four years ago) and hasn't fired it since.
I seriously doubt that anyone will ever shoot one loose. The bones in your hand/wrist will be shot loose long before the revolver will.
All are long gone, and not missed in the slightest.
The 360/340s were downright brutal with "real" .357 Mag rounds, and merely nasty with any decent .38 Spls.
I also had a 396, which is also long gone.
The 325 and 396 were merely unpleasant with "real" .45acp/.44SPL SD loads.
Ultra-lightweight revolvers are great to carry, but very few people will shoot them anywhere near often enough to attain/maintain any degree of proficiency.
Each of mine was bought used with a few rounds through it, and there are many more for sale out there in a similar condition.
The guy who bought my 360 fired it once (about four years ago) and hasn't fired it since.
I seriously doubt that anyone will ever shoot one loose. The bones in your hand/wrist will be shot loose long before the revolver will.
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Silent Bob
New member
Urban legend my a--. Two rounds of .357 Magnum was all I could take out of a scandium j-frame (don't remember the model number but it had a spur hammer). That may sound wuss on my part but the recoil was like nothing I had experienced, it was more like some sort of insane power tool and it felt like nerve damage was being done to my hand. IMO I don't see how they are practical for self-defense at all. Forget rapid repeat shots or one-handed firing. I will leave the scandium guns to guys more man then me.
I can assure you your experience is not uncommon and I appreciate your feedback. Based on the various posts here and a few very good PMs I have some pretty good information. I plan to do a little shopping tomorrow and handle a few guns also check out the used gun sections. Since I will most likely shoot .38 +P ammo I may very well go with a 442/642, but you never know.
The 442 is 15oz. That's the point where you first start to get bullet yanking with the best 158gr 38+P lead loads. We learned that from the first Taurus Titanium snubbies.
I'm not saying don't buy one, or the 13.5oz Ruger LCR38. I *am* saying you're going to have to be more careful about ammo selection, on top of the recoil issues.
Personally, I'd rather go with 17oz or above in a 38 snub.
I'm not saying don't buy one, or the 13.5oz Ruger LCR38. I *am* saying you're going to have to be more careful about ammo selection, on top of the recoil issues.
Personally, I'd rather go with 17oz or above in a 38 snub.
Walklightly
Moderator
First, the OP never mentioned a Ti gun.
I carry, and shoot, an "aluminum" frame 638 .38spl snub +P shooting +Ps. I have shot a Ti S&W snub .357, and I have to say I couldn't believe the pain it gave to me just shooting Law's Speerman 158g FMJ +Ps. At that time I ran out of .357s at the range, so I never did shoot a full .357 out of it. BUT, I WOUND HAVE!!!!!
Walklightly
Moderator
I have a S&W R8 that is part Scandium aluminum and steel, recoil is not much of an issue shooting .357s.
Walklightly,
I understand that the original post was regarding Scandium and not Ti. But the Ti (it was a Taurus) was what the range had to rent and the overall weight was very close to the scandium in .357 that I was considering. I guess my point was that the 3 oz difference in weight turned out to be significant even when using .38+P. There was no need to take the testing to either an actual scandium frame or one chambered in .357. At least for me.
I understand that the original post was regarding Scandium and not Ti. But the Ti (it was a Taurus) was what the range had to rent and the overall weight was very close to the scandium in .357 that I was considering. I guess my point was that the 3 oz difference in weight turned out to be significant even when using .38+P. There was no need to take the testing to either an actual scandium frame or one chambered in .357. At least for me.
UPDATE
Again, thanks for all the feedback and good advice. After some thought I went out this morning and picked up a S&W 442. I really was lusting after one of the M&P 340s and may still add one in the future. However, when considering the fact that I will most likely shoot mostly .38 +P ammo and the reduced cost I decide to go with the Model 442.
So, can anyone recommend some good self defense .38 +P ammo? The place I got the gun had large qualities of ammo, but not a lot of different brands. I picked up some Hornady Critical Defense .38 +P 110gr. and some practice ammo to get started.
Again, thanks for all the feedback and good advice. After some thought I went out this morning and picked up a S&W 442. I really was lusting after one of the M&P 340s and may still add one in the future. However, when considering the fact that I will most likely shoot mostly .38 +P ammo and the reduced cost I decide to go with the Model 442.
So, can anyone recommend some good self defense .38 +P ammo? The place I got the gun had large qualities of ammo, but not a lot of different brands. I picked up some Hornady Critical Defense .38 +P 110gr. and some practice ammo to get started.
thinkingman
New member
I forgot to question the legitimacy of shooting 357Mag out of a 1 7/8" barrel, but the OP has selected a 442, so it's moot.
I bought HSM 125gr Gold Dots not long ago for around $15/50.
Good bullet and weight for the 442.
I bought HSM 125gr Gold Dots not long ago for around $15/50.
Good bullet and weight for the 442.
Silent Bob
New member
That Hornady load for your 442 will suffice very well as a SD load. In regards to my earlier comment about perhaps being a recoil "wuss", I have read many comments on here and other forums about how "punishing" and "brutal" +P loads are out of the Airweights. However, I do not feel much difference in recoil between standard pressure and +P out of the Airweights. The +P rounds are noticeably louder however. I did experience the phenomenon of bullet pull with a round of 158gr +P Remington lead HP in a S&W 638 however. I stick to jacketed rounds in +P with my Airweight.
, I have read many comments on here and other forums about how "punishing" and "brutal" +P loads are out of the Airweights. However, I do not feel much difference in recoil between standard pressure and +P out of the Airweights. The +P rounds are noticeably louder however. I did experience the phenomenon of bullet pull with a round of 158gr +P Remington lead HP in a S&W 638 however. I stick to jacketed rounds in +P with my Airweight.Walklightly
Moderator
The Hornady 110g is a pretty light bullet.
Usually people will recommend a heavier for a short barrel snub.
Gold Dot makes a 135g HP designed for short barrel snubs, which is what I carry and shoot, and they seem to be very accurate for me. Other's will tell you a 158g HP +P.
Usually people will recommend a heavier for a short barrel snub.
Gold Dot makes a 135g HP designed for short barrel snubs, which is what I carry and shoot, and they seem to be very accurate for me. Other's will tell you a 158g HP +P.
bravo2uniform
New member
My experience
I owned one of the first scandium revolvers; I got it right after they came out.
All I have to say is that it was brutal to shoot in .357 and harsh in .38.
Great gun, but too much for me. I reverted to a j-frame air weight.
I owned one of the first scandium revolvers; I got it right after they came out.
All I have to say is that it was brutal to shoot in .357 and harsh in .38.
Great gun, but too much for me. I reverted to a j-frame air weight.
340PD
I had a 340 PD for a couple of years, it's a great gun, but i will agree that the recoil will full factory .357 SD loads and the factory grips it can bruise your hand. BUT I think that if you go to the boot grip that covers the back strap it will help eat up the recoil and if you get the model with the steel cylinder (airweight) as opposed to the scandium cylinder (airlite) it will help even more. I love all of my S&W revolvers (model 29-2, 686 8", Lew Horton 500, model 10, and soon the 632 in .327 federal ), and this gun is perfect for CCW, but S&W makes a ton of j-frame 38/357 model, along with ruger and taurus.
I had a 340 PD for a couple of years, it's a great gun, but i will agree that the recoil will full factory .357 SD loads and the factory grips it can bruise your hand. BUT I think that if you go to the boot grip that covers the back strap it will help eat up the recoil and if you get the model with the steel cylinder (airweight) as opposed to the scandium cylinder (airlite) it will help even more. I love all of my S&W revolvers (model 29-2, 686 8", Lew Horton 500, model 10, and soon the 632 in .327 federal ), and this gun is perfect for CCW, but S&W makes a ton of j-frame 38/357 model, along with ruger and taurus.
I carry Speer's Gold Dot 135gr short barrel load in my S&W 642. Other loads that have worked well in practice are the Remington Golden Sabers and Winchester PDX. I think the Hornady rounds you have are no doubt a good choice, too. Any of the quality hollow points from the first line manufacturers are pretty darn good these days.