I have heard a variety of urban legends about the S&W Scandium revolvers and how difficult they are to shoot. However, none of the folks I have spoken with actually own one of the guns and are only parroting what they have heard from someone else. So, I was curious how those of you who own and/or shoot one of these on a regular basis feel about their performance? I am considering one in .357 Magnum along the lines of the Model 340/360.
S&W Scandium Revolvers
- Thread starter BarryLee
- Start date
Can you find a local range where they'll rent one to you to try?
The 340/360PD models have titanium cylinders. This restricts the Magnum loads used to bullet weights of not less than 120gr to help reduce the possibility of premature erosion in the titanium cylinders (gas erosion in the charge hole throats, cylinder face, etc).
S&W also warns that ammunition which is going to be used in their Ti, Sc & PD revolvers needs to be checked to make sure it doesn't exhibit signs of the bullets becoming unseated by recoil (see page 12 of their revolver manual for modern style revolvers http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/other/S&W_Revolver_Manual_01-30-2011.pdf ).
Now, the M&P 340/360 differs from the PD models in some ways, one of which is they use a PVD coated (black) stainless steel cylinder, instead of titanium. That adds a little bit of weight to the guns, but when I bought my first M&P 340 (I own 2) I checked a number of Magnum loads for signs of bullets coming unseated, anyway. I found some Magnum brands/loads which exhibited bullet pull (unseating) and some which didn't ... when I was shooting.
I mostly carry +P loads in my M&P 340. Why? Because that's what I carry in my 642-1's that are rated for a steady diet of +P, as well as in an older steel-framed 649 (although it sees mostly standard pressure rounds for practice, with only occasional use of +P for function check, continued familiarization and carry use). I prefer the balance of controllability & recoil management I can wring from the +P loads I use. Sure, I've demonstrated in practice & quals that I can do well with Magnum loads, even doing rapid doubles & triples in some demanding qual courses-of-fire ... but I can do it just as accurately, and even faster & more controllably when using +P loads.
The Magnum loads in the M&P 340 develops substantially heavier recoil than +P loads (which generally develop more felt recoil than standard pressure loads). Is it too much? Dunno. That would depend on the individual shooting the gun & loads at any given time.
I tend to think the even lighter 340/360 models with the titanium cylinders develop even more felt recoil than my M&P 340's, based upon my experiences and perceptions when shooting Magnum loads in PD models. (I was shooting 125gr Magnum loads in the last Ti/Sc Magnum J I used on the range.)
Recoil force is real, but how it's perceived, meaning felt recoil, is a pretty subjective thing can vary among folks. It's not uncommon for folks to describe they feel more recoil directed into the palm/web of their hand with heavier bullet weights than lighter bullet weights, though. For example, the 125gr Magnum loads may generate more muzzle blast and whip, but the 158gr Magnum loads usually kick harder against a shooter's palm/hand. I've found some 135gr & 145gr Magnum loads that were somewhat of a 'compromise' for me when it came to felt recoil and muzzle blast. I still wouldn't call them a "fun" experience, though.
I've seen some folks experience injury to their thumb from not having it properly positioned (the rear of the cylinder or the cylinder latch cut their thumbs under recoil). It also pays to be mindful of the barrel/cylinder gap and the danger of hot gasses (or bullet fragments shaved off). There's a reason they put that steel insert above the B/C gap in the aluminum Sc Magnums.
Personally, I tend to 'feel' pain to the bottom of my index finger's last knuckle, caused by the trigger guard rising and hitting it under recoil, whether I'm shooting +P or Magnum loads. I just feel it sooner when shooting Magnum loads. (And I'm a long time Magnum revolver shooter who used to think an enjoyable afternoon was one where I fired a few hundred rounds of .357, .41 or .44 Magnum through medium & large framed revolvers. )
You really need to try one, if possible, with whatever factory ammunition you anticipate using ... which meets the requirements contained in the safety warnings in the user's manual, as well as whatever range policies & restrictions may exist ... and decide for yourself.
The 340/360PD models have titanium cylinders. This restricts the Magnum loads used to bullet weights of not less than 120gr to help reduce the possibility of premature erosion in the titanium cylinders (gas erosion in the charge hole throats, cylinder face, etc).
S&W also warns that ammunition which is going to be used in their Ti, Sc & PD revolvers needs to be checked to make sure it doesn't exhibit signs of the bullets becoming unseated by recoil (see page 12 of their revolver manual for modern style revolvers http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/other/S&W_Revolver_Manual_01-30-2011.pdf ).
Now, the M&P 340/360 differs from the PD models in some ways, one of which is they use a PVD coated (black) stainless steel cylinder, instead of titanium. That adds a little bit of weight to the guns, but when I bought my first M&P 340 (I own 2) I checked a number of Magnum loads for signs of bullets coming unseated, anyway. I found some Magnum brands/loads which exhibited bullet pull (unseating) and some which didn't ... when I was shooting.
I mostly carry +P loads in my M&P 340. Why? Because that's what I carry in my 642-1's that are rated for a steady diet of +P, as well as in an older steel-framed 649 (although it sees mostly standard pressure rounds for practice, with only occasional use of +P for function check, continued familiarization and carry use). I prefer the balance of controllability & recoil management I can wring from the +P loads I use. Sure, I've demonstrated in practice & quals that I can do well with Magnum loads, even doing rapid doubles & triples in some demanding qual courses-of-fire ... but I can do it just as accurately, and even faster & more controllably when using +P loads.
The Magnum loads in the M&P 340 develops substantially heavier recoil than +P loads (which generally develop more felt recoil than standard pressure loads). Is it too much? Dunno. That would depend on the individual shooting the gun & loads at any given time.
I tend to think the even lighter 340/360 models with the titanium cylinders develop even more felt recoil than my M&P 340's, based upon my experiences and perceptions when shooting Magnum loads in PD models. (I was shooting 125gr Magnum loads in the last Ti/Sc Magnum J I used on the range.)
Recoil force is real, but how it's perceived, meaning felt recoil, is a pretty subjective thing can vary among folks. It's not uncommon for folks to describe they feel more recoil directed into the palm/web of their hand with heavier bullet weights than lighter bullet weights, though. For example, the 125gr Magnum loads may generate more muzzle blast and whip, but the 158gr Magnum loads usually kick harder against a shooter's palm/hand. I've found some 135gr & 145gr Magnum loads that were somewhat of a 'compromise' for me when it came to felt recoil and muzzle blast. I still wouldn't call them a "fun" experience, though.
I've seen some folks experience injury to their thumb from not having it properly positioned (the rear of the cylinder or the cylinder latch cut their thumbs under recoil). It also pays to be mindful of the barrel/cylinder gap and the danger of hot gasses (or bullet fragments shaved off). There's a reason they put that steel insert above the B/C gap in the aluminum Sc Magnums.
Personally, I tend to 'feel' pain to the bottom of my index finger's last knuckle, caused by the trigger guard rising and hitting it under recoil, whether I'm shooting +P or Magnum loads. I just feel it sooner when shooting Magnum loads. (And I'm a long time Magnum revolver shooter who used to think an enjoyable afternoon was one where I fired a few hundred rounds of .357, .41 or .44 Magnum through medium & large framed revolvers.
)You really need to try one, if possible, with whatever factory ammunition you anticipate using ... which meets the requirements contained in the safety warnings in the user's manual, as well as whatever range policies & restrictions may exist ... and decide for yourself.
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Thanks for the feedback and I should have been more specific in that I am considering models with the steel cylinder. Yes, I would really like to demo one before I buy, but I wonder how likely I am to find one for rent at a range.
So, do you prefer the single/double action models or the double action only models? Also, has anyone heard reports of failures from a mechanical standpoint?
Shadi Khalil
New member
Fastbolt hit pretty much every point. I have never owned a 340 but I did own a 342, which is a .38 only version of the PD series. My main problem was getting smacked by the trigger guard my finger smashing against the cylinder. It was down right uncomfortable to shoot and my follow up shots were real slow. I now carry a 637 and the difference 3 ounces makes is really mind blowing. I can shoot the 637 all day and it's easy to handle. I would make every effort to try before you buy. The PD/MP/Ti revolvers are not cheap and they can sometimes be hard to sell, as was my experience. I would consider one of the Airweight revolvers as well. They are inexpensive, easy to shoot and well made.
I have shot an sc with 357 loads and a boot grip. I have a 640 magna ported with same grips and carry 357's in 125gr.
I found the sc gun less controllable, but not unbearable. I would probably carry +P's, but maybe 357's, if I improved.
In my SS gun, I can shoot 357's as fast as I can pull the trigger and keep on a paper tactical plate at 7 yards!
So, yea, I think it is a super gun.
Unbearable is my 45 Colt with 325 grn loads at 1300fps. I can bleed from the trigger guard if not careful. Longer sessions like 25 rounds should be followed with a concussion check!
I found the sc gun less controllable, but not unbearable. I would probably carry +P's, but maybe 357's, if I improved.
In my SS gun, I can shoot 357's as fast as I can pull the trigger and keep on a paper tactical plate at 7 yards!
So, yea, I think it is a super gun.
Unbearable is my 45 Colt with 325 grn loads at 1300fps. I can bleed from the trigger guard if not careful. Longer sessions like 25 rounds should be followed with a concussion check!
WildBill45
New member
I have a big one, the model 325, and it does quite well ... thank you! I shoot heavy Buffalo Bore .45 ammo, and with my short barrel hit mid 1100s and, it is controllable to a fault!!! Stock .45 ACP is like feeding candy to a baby!
ohen cepel
New member
I have an Sc version with the Ti cylinder, 38spc model, it's a less common model and very light. With hot loads it's not a lot of fun to shoot, but with my light reloads it's fine all day long.
Haven't had an issue with the trigger guard smacking me with it, could be a function of the grips some. I have nice wood ones on it that fit my hand well.
I don't see a lot of gain in the .357 version due to the short barrel and flash. Your call there though.
Haven't had an issue with the trigger guard smacking me with it, could be a function of the grips some. I have nice wood ones on it that fit my hand well.
I don't see a lot of gain in the .357 version due to the short barrel and flash. Your call there though.
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
I put a few regular speed .44 magnum rounds through a Smith & Wesson scandium revolver. The recoil was somewhat more noticeable than that from a steel-framed model, but by no means punishing or uncontrollable. The lighter weight would make it considerably easier to carry all day every day.
Ruger has a 17oz 357 version of the LCR, and S&W has all-steel snubbies in the 20-21oz range. With the right holster those will carry just fine. At 17oz a few 357 heavyweight loads will start to "recoil pull" out of their shells, but most defensive ammo (esp. jacketed) won't.
I just don't see the need to go down into the 15oz or less range where some of the hotter 38+P loads start to yank out.
I mean...seriously? How is 17oz "too heavy"?
I just don't see the need to go down into the 15oz or less range where some of the hotter 38+P loads start to yank out.
I mean...seriously? How is 17oz "too heavy"?
Yes, I initially started out looking at the Model 60, but it seemed kind of heavy. So, I decided to consider some of the light weight options, but I suspect some perspective is in order. Even though the Model 60 is the heavier of the J-Frames at 22 oz. weight really is probably not an issue. I suppose a bigger question for me is will I end up shooting primarily .38 +P ammo. If so one of the Airweights like the Model 442 probably makes a lot more sense and is significantly cheaper. Dang we are cursed with so many fine choices…
Walklightly
Moderator
#5
Thank you!
The gun is made "aluminum" not scandium, but it uses a minuet amount of scandium in the mixture.
Goggle it, and learn.
Thank you!
The gun is made "aluminum" not scandium, but it uses a minuet amount of scandium in the mixture.
Goggle it, and learn.
All I can tell you is I had one, I qualified with it for CCL, and I sold it. That was a bear to shoot. Granted this was a titanium cylindered J-frame with a 1 and 7/8 barrel. In .357, it would make you hurt. .38s were brisk, but not painful. I prefer my 637 power port. It's a bit heavier, but much more controllable.
I have the scandium framed 329PD, the .44 Magnum version.
I'm here to tell you if you shoot this weapon with full power loads, especially with the OEM wood grips, you will notice the recoil. If you keep shooting these full power loads, it will start to hurt.
Excellent gun to carry, excellent gun to shoot - with .44 Special loads.
I love my 329PD and I'll have it until the day I die.
Good luck.
I'm here to tell you if you shoot this weapon with full power loads, especially with the OEM wood grips, you will notice the recoil. If you keep shooting these full power loads, it will start to hurt.
Excellent gun to carry, excellent gun to shoot - with .44 Special loads.
I love my 329PD and I'll have it until the day I die.
Good luck.
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Shadi Khalil
New member
I forgot to add in my previous post that the grips on my old 342 were also a problem. I like houge boot grips on my 637, they fit my hand well and the exposed back strap is no problem. However, I found the boot grips on the 342 to be a little too sticky. It wasn't a problem when drawing from concealment but they did give me a bit of a blister when shooting. I don't have that problem with my 637 because the grips are smoother and not as tacky.
Despite all my gripes and bad memories, I'd still like to own another Airlite some day.
Despite all my gripes and bad memories, I'd still like to own another Airlite some day.
Slightly off topic, but, I have a Taurus Total Titanium 455 Revolver. It weighs 23 ounces, unloaded and is a five shot 45 acp. Taurus states it is validated for +P ammo. I don't mind shooting it at all with regular, but the +P is a bit more than I'd like to handle, and I'm not generally bothered by hot loads much in normal guns.
Missionary
New member
Greetings
Up north there have the Titanium .357 model with the 1 7/8 barrel. (or is it 2") With .357 mag loads of 158 swc with 7 grains Unique it flat hurts with a nasty stingy trying to rip out of my hand twist. Backed that load off to 5.5 and that is what I carry in it.
The sherrif deputy who was 1st owner fired 10 rounds of factory .357 mag 140 grainers, returned to the sales desk and told the owner to"sell that thing today". I happened to walk in the shop about 3 hours later and happily paid $350 for it.
Mike in Peru
Up north there have the Titanium .357 model with the 1 7/8 barrel. (or is it 2") With .357 mag loads of 158 swc with 7 grains Unique it flat hurts with a nasty stingy trying to rip out of my hand twist. Backed that load off to 5.5 and that is what I carry in it.
The sherrif deputy who was 1st owner fired 10 rounds of factory .357 mag 140 grainers, returned to the sales desk and told the owner to"sell that thing today". I happened to walk in the shop about 3 hours later and happily paid $350 for it.
Mike in Peru
thinkingman
New member
I have shot a 360 with 158gr factory loads.
It was easily the most violent handgun I've ever shot.
Loud, sharp recoil....no damping of recoil or blast at all.
I've shot SW 500 and 460 and they are *****cats compared to a 360 with full-house ammo.
Unless you believe that an adrenalin charge will make you superman or have hands like a vise, there's no way you could fire more than one round with a single-hand grip.
Takes two and then some.
38spl or 45acp makes more sense in a scandium gun.
BTW I have the Taurus Ti 45acp 4 inch revolver and while the recoil is sharp, it's very controllable and accurate....fine little gun.
It was easily the most violent handgun I've ever shot.
Loud, sharp recoil....no damping of recoil or blast at all.
I've shot SW 500 and 460 and they are *****cats compared to a 360 with full-house ammo.
Unless you believe that an adrenalin charge will make you superman or have hands like a vise, there's no way you could fire more than one round with a single-hand grip.
Takes two and then some.
38spl or 45acp makes more sense in a scandium gun.
BTW I have the Taurus Ti 45acp 4 inch revolver and while the recoil is sharp, it's very controllable and accurate....fine little gun.
I think - these scandium guns are what they are .....they're light / and have small frames ( J frames for the most part ) ....
....and light and small frames in a gun chambered in a magnum caliber like the .357 mag will give you a lot of recoil and they're difficult to shoot with any degree of accuracy beyond 15 feet...
but if you want something really light ...and you intend to shoot it no more than 15 feet ....they can be accurate enough/if you practice with them enough to maintain your proficiency.
Personally, I have larger hands - so J frames don't work well for me / a little arthritis in my hands ...and violent recoil in a light gun is an issue for me. So if I want to carry a revolver - then I'd opt for something a little bigger and heavier like a K frame model 19 or 66 in a 2 1/2" or even a 4" barrel. Rather than the light revolver....maybe a Sig 239 in 9mm or .40S&W is a better option ....or something like a Kimber Tactical Pro II model, a 4" barrel, and an alloy frame in either .45 acp or 9mm. I have one in 9mm ....and its a light gun to carry ....
My point is - there are other light guns out there --- that might be better than the scandium J frame revolvers....but it comes down to what fits your hands the best ...and what you'll practice with to remain proficient. Even consider dropping down to a .380 like the new little Sig that's been out there for a year or so ...is a better little gun than the scandium option, in my mind.
Getting too wrapped up in weight alone ...vs what fits your hands ...is a mistake in my mind. But to really tell ...you need to go to a range and shoot them and decide for yourself. My buddies and I have done that ...and none of us thought it was a good option...vs many other ways to go. But you have to find that combination of weight and caliber and size that suits you - and fits your hands the best - not what suits me.
....and light and small frames in a gun chambered in a magnum caliber like the .357 mag will give you a lot of recoil and they're difficult to shoot with any degree of accuracy beyond 15 feet...
but if you want something really light ...and you intend to shoot it no more than 15 feet ....they can be accurate enough/if you practice with them enough to maintain your proficiency.
Personally, I have larger hands - so J frames don't work well for me / a little arthritis in my hands ...and violent recoil in a light gun is an issue for me. So if I want to carry a revolver - then I'd opt for something a little bigger and heavier like a K frame model 19 or 66 in a 2 1/2" or even a 4" barrel. Rather than the light revolver....maybe a Sig 239 in 9mm or .40S&W is a better option ....or something like a Kimber Tactical Pro II model, a 4" barrel, and an alloy frame in either .45 acp or 9mm. I have one in 9mm ....and its a light gun to carry ....
My point is - there are other light guns out there --- that might be better than the scandium J frame revolvers....but it comes down to what fits your hands the best ...and what you'll practice with to remain proficient. Even consider dropping down to a .380 like the new little Sig that's been out there for a year or so ...is a better little gun than the scandium option, in my mind.
Getting too wrapped up in weight alone ...vs what fits your hands ...is a mistake in my mind. But to really tell ...you need to go to a range and shoot them and decide for yourself. My buddies and I have done that ...and none of us thought it was a good option...vs many other ways to go. But you have to find that combination of weight and caliber and size that suits you - and fits your hands the best - not what suits me.
Yes, an excellent point and I do not really disagree. I already have many of the other options you mentioned such as .380s and a Model 66, but want to add a smaller/lighter revolver to my collection. Regardless I want something that I can carry and handle competently, so all the feedback has been very helpful.