S&W revolver: alter trigger or replace?
- Thread starter Sevens
- Start date
Though I'm not a fan of the serrations, the width is more of an issue for me, as my finger tends to push a wide trigger when shooting DA.
The only one I know that prefers serrations is Miculek himself. JM's got power aplenty in his trigger finger, and tends to pull the DA trigger with the tip of his finger and low on the trigger face, so I'm guessing the serrations give his finger a little extra purchase. Below's an interesting tidbit about the serrations on his version of the 625, though:
From http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_files/e8b998dd63b440b469dd8c5d4d262aed-150.html:
"Of the 625JM models I've worked on, all of them came in with a request to remove the trigger face serrations - one of the major features that Jerry insists on! It seems that serrated triggers, as much as he likes them, do not fit well with everyone."
Sevens said:
The only one I know that prefers serrations is Miculek himself. JM's got power aplenty in his trigger finger, and tends to pull the DA trigger with the tip of his finger and low on the trigger face, so I'm guessing the serrations give his finger a little extra purchase. Below's an interesting tidbit about the serrations on his version of the 625, though:
From http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_files/e8b998dd63b440b469dd8c5d4d262aed-150.html:
"Of the 625JM models I've worked on, all of them came in with a request to remove the trigger face serrations - one of the major features that Jerry insists on! It seems that serrated triggers, as much as he likes them, do not fit well with everyone."
Well what we have here is some issues
1. Can you "drop in" a new trigger? Now I DON'T KNOW. I'd call Smith & Wesson and ask them whether they hand finish/polish internal parts or whether they are made to such tolerances that you can "drop in" a new trigger. If they are hand finished, well then, it seems to me the most logical thing to do is just grind down and polish the trigger to your liking. If you can "drop in" a new trigger without any hand fitting AND you intend to sell the gun some day in the future, then there may be a motive to buy a new trigger.
If its double action shooting, you probably already have but just in case- you usually can go with a Wolf Spring that is a little lighter and still get 100% ignition and easier double action shooting.
And I agree, on the DA you really do need that polished, smooth surface.
1. Can you "drop in" a new trigger? Now I DON'T KNOW. I'd call Smith & Wesson and ask them whether they hand finish/polish internal parts or whether they are made to such tolerances that you can "drop in" a new trigger. If they are hand finished, well then, it seems to me the most logical thing to do is just grind down and polish the trigger to your liking. If you can "drop in" a new trigger without any hand fitting AND you intend to sell the gun some day in the future, then there may be a motive to buy a new trigger.
If its double action shooting, you probably already have but just in case- you usually can go with a Wolf Spring that is a little lighter and still get 100% ignition and easier double action shooting.
And I agree, on the DA you really do need that polished, smooth surface.
I do.
but then, I don't do much DA shooting. My favorite DA revolver is a 28-2 that has the wide target trigger and hammer spur. And 99% of my shooting is SA. However, when I do shoot DA (small amounts) its almost always with that same 28 with the wide trigger.
Model 28s didn't come from the factory with the wide trigger & hammer. But back in the day (through the 80s, anyway) S&W sold them in blister packs, to be installed either by a smith or the customer.
It is just about a given that a replacement S&W hammer or trigger (for the old guns, anyway) will drop in and work. Getting it to work its best takes a bit of fitting, usually. It may not, but if you expect it, you are pleasantly surprised if you don't need it. And Murphy being still with us, if you plan on it not taking any fitting, then for sure it will need it!
As far as I know, S&W doesn't offer those parts anymore. SO, please don't grind down a target trigger unless you have to. Get one that is already what you want, and let that one pass on to someone who wants it the way it is.
And, I do agree, if I was doing a lot of DA work, I'd want a smooth trigger, too.
I can't remember how many worthless target trigger and hammers I replaced, mostly M-27s, three at least. I shoot DA guns DA if I didn't I'd own a bunch of Blackhawks. If you weren't so emotionally attached to your worthless target trigger on your 17 you could have a proper trigger on it. OK, I'm a little emotionally unattached to worthless target triggers.
I don't have a problem with the wide target trigger. For target shooting or single action shooting at long range I think they help produce better accuracy. On the double action, I know that the shooter is not supposed to curl the trigger finger around the trigger and that the finger should move straight back, etc. etc. BUT there is the recoil and fast shooting and a whole lot going on and under such conditions a wide trigger might tend to actually pull the gun off target whereas the smooth trigger allows a finger to slide into proper position and exert a straight back force that might not happen on a wide, grooved target trigger that a shooter's finger could hang up on rather than slide into proper position.
I agree, there are always rare exceptions. There are no factory nickel 28s. Except that there are a few (possibly 5?)
Does he have the box for that gun? The label will tell us, if it was shipped that way. Otherwise, short of a letter from Roy Jinks, we never know.
Lots of times, the shops would install the TT & TH in new guns, and the customer assumes it came that way, unless told otherwise.
The Model 28-2 in question, as I mentioned, was picked up just this last summer. The revolver dates to 1974 and it's a solid shooter and I enjoy it very much, but this is no gem. There was no original box. Not only was it missing the original stocks, the badly worn set of Pachmayr Grippers on it had a badly carved HOLE in the front of the rubber grip to allow Bubba to get to the strain screw right there at the shooting range.
It feels like (at the very LEAST) that the rebound spring was altered, as the trigger return feels different and it's not exactly linear. Trigger rebounds properly but the last bit of travel REALLY requires you to take all pressure of it, or it won't get there.
The hammer spur is the biggest clue to the fact that this gun is -NOT- original and not at all pristine -- the hammer spur itself has been hacked & ground. It's got an odd shape now, kind of like a trapezoid almost. It's "longer" on the one side than the other. It's almost like the guy was trying to decide how he was going to shape it... but he never got back to the project.
Don't get the idea that this is a lousy gun. Far from it. This gun is a riot, and it was really what I was looking for. I wanted to get in to a 27/28 that I could pound with reckless abandon, and for cheap money. I was out the door, tax included, for $460. The lock up is superb. No end shake. Timing is near perfect. No misfires or FTF's and I've logged over 700 rounds in it since I snagged it in mid-August. It's accurate and it begs for my warmest ammo and eats them all happily.
Is the TH original? No idea. But there's plenty of evidence that this revolver has been altered, and not a little bit. Me, personally, I have -zero- experience in any manner of metal working. So even if this TH gets ground down and shaped, that work will not be done be me. I have a couple different friends that have experience doing this sort of thing. But I have no emotional attachment to the trigger on it, original, out of production, or otherwise.
It feels like (at the very LEAST) that the rebound spring was altered, as the trigger return feels different and it's not exactly linear. Trigger rebounds properly but the last bit of travel REALLY requires you to take all pressure of it, or it won't get there.
The hammer spur is the biggest clue to the fact that this gun is -NOT- original and not at all pristine -- the hammer spur itself has been hacked & ground. It's got an odd shape now, kind of like a trapezoid almost. It's "longer" on the one side than the other. It's almost like the guy was trying to decide how he was going to shape it... but he never got back to the project.
Don't get the idea that this is a lousy gun. Far from it. This gun is a riot, and it was really what I was looking for. I wanted to get in to a 27/28 that I could pound with reckless abandon, and for cheap money. I was out the door, tax included, for $460. The lock up is superb. No end shake. Timing is near perfect. No misfires or FTF's and I've logged over 700 rounds in it since I snagged it in mid-August. It's accurate and it begs for my warmest ammo and eats them all happily.
Is the TH original? No idea. But there's plenty of evidence that this revolver has been altered, and not a little bit. Me, personally, I have -zero- experience in any manner of metal working. So even if this TH gets ground down and shaped, that work will not be done be me. I have a couple different friends that have experience doing this sort of thing. But I have no emotional attachment to the trigger on it, original, out of production, or otherwise.
It's the entire revolver that I have a very strong emotional attachment to, and the reasons have been documented elsewhere on this site. That revolver has never had the sideplate off and it won't as long as I'm on this Earth. So it shall stay as it is, and I'm fine with that... and that's where it ends.
-- UPDATE --
Last gun show I was at, one guy had a small selection of gun parts. In a small zippered bag, he had triggers and it was marked "S&W K-frame triggers, $10" I looked 'em over and all were serrated except one, so I pulled that one out and gave him $10 for it. Upon getting it home, it seemed MORE than obvious that I had something smaller than what I needed. I'd have to bet that I just purchased a J-frame trigger. But no biggie, I have a buddy that already wants it.
90 minutes ago, however, I pulled a Model 10-7 of 1983 vintage out of the safe... one that I just don't shoot much. It's nickeled, four-inch, but with the standard tapered barrel. But it's got the smooth, thin trigger in it.
Snagged the 28-2 out of the safe also and went to work. I have been inside S&W revolvers once before, so it wasn't totally unfamiliar, but let's just say that I probably won't be filming for my own line of gunsmithing video tutorials.
When the dust had settled, I got both revolvers back together after swapping their triggers. Both are 100% functional!
There is a side-nugget to report, and I'm absolutely certain of this, it's not a guess: single action trigger break on the 28-2 is now FAR more firm than before. Not a little. Not a deal breaker, just feels heavier than you'd expect from a 1974 S&W revolver.
And, as I suppose it should... single action break on the 10-7 is now very LIGHT. As in, probably lighter than most of us would want on our guns.
As I've said before, I'm a double-action shooter, so I'm prepared to go forth with no care about it. But it's there, it's real. Others would not accept how light it is.
Anyway, I appreciate all of the input in this thread and glad that I've come to a bit of a conclusion... with a happy ending.
Last gun show I was at, one guy had a small selection of gun parts. In a small zippered bag, he had triggers and it was marked "S&W K-frame triggers, $10" I looked 'em over and all were serrated except one, so I pulled that one out and gave him $10 for it. Upon getting it home, it seemed MORE than obvious that I had something smaller than what I needed. I'd have to bet that I just purchased a J-frame trigger.
But no biggie, I have a buddy that already wants it.90 minutes ago, however, I pulled a Model 10-7 of 1983 vintage out of the safe... one that I just don't shoot much. It's nickeled, four-inch, but with the standard tapered barrel. But it's got the smooth, thin trigger in it.
Snagged the 28-2 out of the safe also and went to work. I have been inside S&W revolvers once before, so it wasn't totally unfamiliar, but let's just say that I probably won't be filming for my own line of gunsmithing video tutorials.
When the dust had settled, I got both revolvers back together after swapping their triggers. Both are 100% functional!
There is a side-nugget to report, and I'm absolutely certain of this, it's not a guess: single action trigger break on the 28-2 is now FAR more firm than before. Not a little. Not a deal breaker, just feels heavier than you'd expect from a 1974 S&W revolver.
And, as I suppose it should... single action break on the 10-7 is now very LIGHT. As in, probably lighter than most of us would want on our guns.
As I've said before, I'm a double-action shooter, so I'm prepared to go forth with no care about it. But it's there, it's real. Others would not accept how light it is.
Anyway, I appreciate all of the input in this thread and glad that I've come to a bit of a conclusion... with a happy ending.