S&W Quality worse than Taurus

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totaldla

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ewayte said:
If you're that unhappy with your 329

Please read the thread before you get your exercise from jumping to conclusions. It will help you keep your posts relevant.

I don't see why people make excuses for S&W in this case. S&W screwed up. Do they have a plan in place to catch these screwups before they hit the dealers shelves? If you cant' answer that - don't make excuses for them. It seems you are advocating that they ship crap because "they are built by humans". Do other vendors use Martians?

S&W "should" have higher initial quality than a Taurus. At least that is what the 50% higher price would suggest.
 

stevieboy

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You know, I gotta chime back in here because I see this thread beginning to veer off into one of those "Smith doesn't build them like they used to" rants. Typically, the people who assert that hold up as an example some gun that Smith made back in the 1930's - 1950's and claim that everything produced since then, is, more or less, inferior.

A few thoughts about that: the image that a lot of the "old is better" crowd love to conjure up is of skilled craftsmen each individually building guns, one carefully hand fitted part at a time. Not so!! Smith has been an assembly line entity since its inception as have all modern firearms manufacturers. Eli Whitney, who invented the cotton gin, also invented the assembly line manufacture of firearms. The reason why so many American firearm manufacturers are based in New England is because that's where the assembly line was invented.

There are a lot of myths out there about the "old" Smith revolvers that are simply urban legends. Here's just one example. I've been hearing for years that the distinctively cross-hatched top strap of the old Model 27s was lovingly etched, one line at a time, by craftsmen in the Smith factory. That is simply wrong. Smith, beginning in the 1930s with its Registered Magnum, used a machine to etch the cross-hatching on the guns' top straps.

Smith revolvers have been built on an assembly line since day one. Smith's goal in the mid-1800s, as it is today, was to produce guns with essentially interchangeable parts. The greater the uniformity of production, the lower the unit costs and the higher the profit. Yes, older methods required more intervention by individual line workers than today's manufacturing process does. But, that doesn't mean, necessarily, that the older methods were better. It means only that today, computers and robots have taken the imprecision out of the manufacturing process. So, manufacturers, like Smith, can crank out guns much more efficiently because fewer hours of labor are involved in the production of each gun.

As an aside, the progression from assembly line with human intervention to assembly line dominated by robots and computers is not unique to the handgun industry. Consider today's autos. Nearly all of today's cars are built with far less hands on work than were the cars of the 1950s. Can anyone say with a straight face that a typical American sedan of the 1950s is more efficient, more problem free, and more dependable than a modern robot built auto?

Those manufacturers -- like Smith -- who have been able to adapt to the modern era and who have streamlined their production processes have survived. That's not been the case for others -- like Colt -- who stuck with inefficient production processes for too long. Colt didn't stop making double action revolvers because it was producing bad guns, it stopped because it could no longer produce them efficiently.

Furthermore, the efficiencies in production that Smith has introduced have been passed on to consumers. A top of the line Smith revolver made now costs at retail substantially less than $1000. That is far, far less than the gun would have cost had it been made the old way. Those of you who rant that Smith doesn't make them like they used to might pause, just for a moment, and consider that if Smith continued to make them like they used to their guns would either be prohibitively expensive or they would have stopped making them altogether, as Colt did.

Here's another way of thinking about it. Look at the top of the line 1911s. Many of them ARE made the "old way" with a lot of hand fitting in small shops. And, their price reflects the process. How many of you would be willing to pay $2000 or more for a Smith revolver?

So, no, Smith has not sold its customers down the river as many of you contend. Probably, if it were not for the technological and manufacturing changes that it and some others have introduced in recent years, there wouldn't be a Smith product for you to complain about.
 
S&W fanboys

sound as bad as the H&K fanboys out there. I just don't understand blind loyalty to a brand that exists out there.

I have a S&W 629 mountain gun; it's what I carry 90% of the time, and I love it. But there's no denying the current Smiths aren't what they were (unless you're buying from the custom shop).

I have rugers (Redhawks -great guns and built like tanks), a Taurus 85 (runs like it's supposed to -it goes bang every time, but has the worst trigger I've ever used).

Webley, Interarms, JP Saeur and sons, etccc

I own alot of revolvers. They're all more than 20 years old, and they run flawlessly. I was looking at new revolver for my wife to carry, and the only current model revolver out there that met the compromise between performance, quality, and price point is the sp101. Does that make me want to take offence anytime someone says something about Ruger? Nope.

This guy baited ya'll with his thread title, and the S&W fanboys jumped all over it. Do you guys get paid to try to beat down anyone who insults your "brand"? I didn't think so. It's kind of like why I only wear brand names on my clothing if I'm getting free stuff from them...
 

Stainz

New member
Interesting. This 'S&W fanboy' is confused, Humanitarian2112. You say you carry your 629MG and love it - and that your revolvers are over 20 yr old. Sorry - the oldest 629MG is less than 17 years old. You like the Ruger Redhawks? Recall their early days - the .44 Magnum, due to machining and assembly problems, would launch it's barrel. So much market insecurity, Ruger developed the Super Redhawk in .44 Magnum just to regain it's share.

Oh, and I've had a new 5.5" SS RH in .45 Colt. Actually, a friend and I each ordered one the same day. Mine came with a funky trigger, lopsided hammer, and burst casting bubbles (flaws) between the chamber exits on the cylinder - which had been finished! That didn't instill confidence... Ruger picked it up on their dime. My friend's went back days later. Mine got a new hammer, trigger, cylinder, and 'misc parts'. My friend's had a warped frame - they sent him a new revolver. He sold it immediately. Mine lingered a couple of years - but jamming during reloads, ftf's with slow trigger pulls - even with Federal primers - just wasn't fun - and Ruger had done the trigger work!

I had, over the years, Ruger BHs, Bisley BH, Vaqueros, SS, SSM, SBH, etc - all came needing TLC to function correctly. The absolute worst... the straw that broke the camel's back - was a NIB 4" .32M SP-101 - unreal burrs, poorly reamed holes, etc - and SAAMI absolute max ID chambers, which over worked the little brass. I said goodbye to Rugers nearly two years ago - I have fewer revolvers now - but all S&W - what I want and like - and they work quite well. They are not Korths... they are S&Ws - an American icon - that works well - and carries a warranty that is real. Oddly, my 4" 625MGs in .45 Colt, shot DA, would outgroup the RH and all of the SA's at 25 yd. Another oddity, my favorite Ruger was an early SRH in .454 Casull, which I sold after buying the RH - big oops there.

My point is simple - all brands can have their problems. All of the 'rough' Rugers - except that Redhawk - would have required me shipping them at my expense. All of the phone calls were on me. S&W ships on their dime - and has an 800 number. YMMV.

Stainz
 

madmag

New member
Well, we should know better. Anytime a thread has a title that invokes a comparison to Taurus it is doomed to end up no fun and un-interesting.
 

18DAI

New member
humanitarian2112

Please don't let the rantings of a few brand loyal fanboys discourage you from participating in what is otherwise, a very worthwhile gunboard.

A few here own some current production S&W revolvers and wander the net pushing wind up guns. Whatever floats their boat. :rolleyes: Perhaps they purchased that Safety Wesson stock when it was high. ;)

We need more common sense here, not less. Please continue to participate. Regards 18DAI.
 
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silversimpson

New member
"S&W "should" have higher initial quality than a Taurus. At least that is what the 50% higher price would suggest."

In my experience they do. How many Taurus' pistols have you owned? Just curious. I would have immediately return two out of the three I have dealt with (after shooting them), had they not been purchased at a gun show.

Paying up to an extra $300 for a gun makes sense if you want a firearm that you will keep and hand down to your kids rather than one you'll be selling at half price just to get rid of it.
 

Webleymkv

New member
To the OP, how many S&W's have you owned and how many Taurus handguns have you owned? For that matter, how many different types of handguns have you owned?
 

totaldla

New member
webleymkv said:
To the OP, how many S&W's have you owned and how many Taurus handguns have you owned? For that matter, how many different types of handguns have you owned?

And exactly how is that relevant? Please think before you post..
 

Wrothgar

Moderator
I bought a S&W PPK/S that was recalled. I was without PPK for 3 months and when I got it back I sold it. I don't plan on buying another S&W.
 

bipe215

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totaldla said:

And exactly how is that relevant? Please think before you post..


I would say your title of this 4 page thread makes it pretty relevant.
Please think before you title.

Steve G
 

Webleymkv

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Quote:
Originally Posted by webleymkv
To the OP, how many S&W's have you owned and how many Taurus handguns have you owned? For that matter, how many different types of handguns have you owned?

And exactly how is that relevant? Please think before you post..

Well, I'm trying to find out exactly how much experience your evaluation of quality is based on. I have my suscpicions about the answer, particularly since you instantly became defensive over an innocuous question, but I figured I should do you the courtesy of asking before making assumptions. Please think before you get so snippy.
 
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totaldla

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webleymkv said:
Well, I'm trying to find out exactly how much experience your evaluation of quality is based on. I have my suscpicions about the answer, particularly since you instantly became defensive over an innocuous question, but I figured I should do you the courtesy of asking before making assumptions. Please think before you get so snippy.

16 total. Over 40 years. Now exactly what does that prove? THINK - it does a body good.
 

ScottRiqui

New member
Talk to anyone that has a basic grasp of statistics - it proves that you don't have a large enough sample size to say *anything* definitive about the overall quality of the S&W line.

I have a Springfield EMP that wouldn't lock the slide back on an empty magazine until Springfield sent me a new slide stop pin. Would that qualify me to say that Springfield's quality is worse than Taurus (or any other line?) Of course not.

I'm sure there were Edsel owners that had tens of thousands of trouble-free miles with their cars, just as I'm sure that there are Hondas that have grenaded shortly after being driven off the lot.
 
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