S&W Kaboom (56k Beware)
- Thread starter Tom Servo
- Start date
In the metallurgical industry, scandium is known as a "minute additions element". Minor additions of the element have a tremendous effect on the base metal. Calling the revolver Scandium may be a catch phrase marketing ploy, but minor addition to aluminum is what it is all about.
maestro pistolero
New member
Ho-Kay, I guess I'll be getting a steel-framed revolver for my non-shooting significant other.
Maestro pistolero -- I'd recommend a steel frame gun for a non-shooter anyway. I'm a relatively new gun owner and CCW carrier -- I got my first gun, an S&W Model 60, this spring shortly after taking my Concealed Firearm Permit class. I didn't buy it for CCW particularly, but because it's a smaller frame gun that fits my hand beautifully. I've since shot an S&W airweight and a Ruger LCR, and find both are *much* harder to control in the event.
The extra weight and heft of a steel gun really helps a novice shooter maintain control.
I also have another recommendation, however, if you are buying a gun for your currently non-shooting significant other. Don't, at least not yet. Instead, if you've got a range that rents out guns nearby, take her there and let her try out their guns and yours. When she's tried out several, suggest that she go to the store and pick a gun. You can pay for it if you want, but she really should be the one who chooses her own gun if you want her to use it.
The extra weight and heft of a steel gun really helps a novice shooter maintain control.
I also have another recommendation, however, if you are buying a gun for your currently non-shooting significant other. Don't, at least not yet. Instead, if you've got a range that rents out guns nearby, take her there and let her try out their guns and yours. When she's tried out several, suggest that she go to the store and pick a gun. You can pay for it if you want, but she really should be the one who chooses her own gun if you want her to use it.
I have an older 360PD. I had about 300 rounds through it when it started spitting jacket back at me. S&W sent a prepaid slip and it was back home in 2 weeks with a new frame and cylinder.
I have noticed wear marks on the frame in the window where the cylinder goes, I spoke with the S&W armorer who said it is fairly normal and that the SC/TI frames flex more than standard aluminum. That being said, I quit using HOT 357 loads and use the speer short barrel loads or +p 38s.
I have noticed wear marks on the frame in the window where the cylinder goes, I spoke with the S&W armorer who said it is fairly normal and that the SC/TI frames flex more than standard aluminum. That being said, I quit using HOT 357 loads and use the speer short barrel loads or +p 38s.
I thought they figured out the solution to the barrel-falling-off problem 3 years ago. I guess not. John
http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2006/03/s-wesson-forum.html
"Faced with problems ranging from misfires to barrels breaking off, the state has asked gun maker Smith & Wesson to replace hundreds of sidearms carried by probation and corrections officers.
None of the revolvers have failed in the line of duty, and for now, the department is keeping the guns in service. But in testing, about one in four revolvers didn't fire when the trigger was pulled. In some cases, the barrel of some models broke off when the gun was fired."
http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2006/03/s-wesson-forum.html
"Faced with problems ranging from misfires to barrels breaking off, the state has asked gun maker Smith & Wesson to replace hundreds of sidearms carried by probation and corrections officers.
None of the revolvers have failed in the line of duty, and for now, the department is keeping the guns in service. But in testing, about one in four revolvers didn't fire when the trigger was pulled. In some cases, the barrel of some models broke off when the gun was fired."
Aluminum Barrel?
I believe Scandium is classified as a rare earth element and can be found in group 3 on the Periodic Table of Elements which also contains the element Aluminum, probably giving the 2 metals similar properties.
Scandium is alloyed with Aluminum in ratios of .5% to 1% Scandium giving it a greater strength, particularly when welding. It has been used in the Areospance industry, particularly in the Russian Mig 21 and 29, Baseball bats, bycycle frames and by ONE firearms manufacturer, Smith and Wesson for the manufacturing of frames.
And no, I don't believe I would want to own a .357 magnun with the frame and possibly the barrel manufactured using an alloy containing as much as 99.5% Aluminum, regardless of the hardening properties of Scandium. I guess I'm just old fashioned.
F. Prefect
I believe Scandium is classified as a rare earth element and can be found in group 3 on the Periodic Table of Elements which also contains the element Aluminum, probably giving the 2 metals similar properties.
Scandium is alloyed with Aluminum in ratios of .5% to 1% Scandium giving it a greater strength, particularly when welding. It has been used in the Areospance industry, particularly in the Russian Mig 21 and 29, Baseball bats, bycycle frames and by ONE firearms manufacturer, Smith and Wesson for the manufacturing of frames.
And no, I don't believe I would want to own a .357 magnun with the frame and possibly the barrel manufactured using an alloy containing as much as 99.5% Aluminum, regardless of the hardening properties of Scandium. I guess I'm just old fashioned.
F. Prefect
With S&W...
... I really don't think there will be any need to mention a lawyer.
I also find it ironic, given how most of us don't like anti's trying to use lawsuits to put the gun industry out of business, that anybody would suggest opening the conversation with S&W by mentioning the possibility of a lawsuit.
... I really don't think there will be any need to mention a lawyer.
I also find it ironic, given how most of us don't like anti's trying to use lawsuits to put the gun industry out of business, that anybody would suggest opening the conversation with S&W by mentioning the possibility of a lawsuit.
Technosavant
New member
I cannot think of a more misguided tack to take with this.
It was clearly a manufacturing defect. S&W knows they can charge premium prices because of a perception of higher quality and of good customer service in the event something does go wrong. They'll be quite eager to make it right just out of good business practice and they will also want to ensure other guns do not share the same defect.
Mentioning lawyers is more likely to be unproductive and cause things to clam up. I'd expect that if he called customer service today, he'll have the shipping label by the end of the week, and by the end of next week he's likely to have a new gun in his hands. I fail to see how trying to "rattle their cage" with legal action (that would be pointless anyway, mind you- no actual harm was suffered) would cause anything to proceed any faster.
How to approach S&W
I completely agree with your line of thinking. Although I have never had a problem with any S&W products, the few I know who did have came away completely satisfied by going through customer service. Their reputation is part of the price they charge for their products and making a customer happy by ONLY supplying them with a new gun is a very cheap "out" for S&W if they can get it.
However, at the first mention of a lawyer or lawsuit is only going to bring their attorneys into the mix and the probable first step may be to cut off all communications between the customer and customer service, which in most cases is not going to be beneficial from the customer's standpoint at all. But if he works with them, they will in most cases make every effort to keep him as a S&W customer. Threaten them, and all you've done is make a few lawyers happy.
F. Prefect
I completely agree with your line of thinking. Although I have never had a problem with any S&W products, the few I know who did have came away completely satisfied by going through customer service. Their reputation is part of the price they charge for their products and making a customer happy by ONLY supplying them with a new gun is a very cheap "out" for S&W if they can get it.
However, at the first mention of a lawyer or lawsuit is only going to bring their attorneys into the mix and the probable first step may be to cut off all communications between the customer and customer service, which in most cases is not going to be beneficial from the customer's standpoint at all. But if he works with them, they will in most cases make every effort to keep him as a S&W customer. Threaten them, and all you've done is make a few lawyers happy.
F. Prefect
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Folks shoot plastic frame guns all the time. I prefer Aluminium to plastic, espeically Scandium enriched Aluminium. The barrel I do not believe is Aluminium. My 329PD has a steel insert as the barrel. The .44 magnum 329PD has caused zero problems to date, and I would expect same from the .357 magnum revolver.
I'm awaiting S&W respones.
I'm awaiting S&W respones.
Well when I mentioned lawyer I meant that if his initial response from S&W was less then satisfactory. Also, if the gun had taken off one of his fingers or severally damaged his hand when it exploded would you be saying not to mention a lawyer?
The fact is if he was shooting factory ammo then this should never have happened and it did and it's not a minor thing as he or someone standing near him could have been seriously injured. If he was shooting reloads then he is out of luck because they won't stand behind the gun because they don't know if the reload caused it. If it's factory ammo then they will probably want the name of the company making the ammo as part of their investigation.
The fact is if he was shooting factory ammo then this should never have happened and it did and it's not a minor thing as he or someone standing near him could have been seriously injured. If he was shooting reloads then he is out of luck because they won't stand behind the gun because they don't know if the reload caused it. If it's factory ammo then they will probably want the name of the company making the ammo as part of their investigation.
No to lawyer mention.
I worked as a manuf. rep for many years, generally we are the "go to" guys when there is a product manufacturing defect.
When a customer would come out guns blazing with the L word (lawyer) I would calmly state. If you wish our attorneys to handle this our conversation is at an end, here's the name and address of our legal council.
Now if you would like me to work with you to resolve the issue, I will forget you mentioned getting a lawyer involved, and move forward to resolve the issue to your reasonable satisfaction.
If they bring up the L word again, it's game over.
Threats don't work, don't expect them to.
I worked as a manuf. rep for many years, generally we are the "go to" guys when there is a product manufacturing defect.
When a customer would come out guns blazing with the L word (lawyer) I would calmly state. If you wish our attorneys to handle this our conversation is at an end, here's the name and address of our legal council.
Now if you would like me to work with you to resolve the issue, I will forget you mentioned getting a lawyer involved, and move forward to resolve the issue to your reasonable satisfaction.
If they bring up the L word again, it's game over.
Threats don't work, don't expect them to.