S&W J-frame Debacle Follow Up

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Shadi Khalil

New member
A while back, I started this thread ...

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=529223

J-Frame SA Issue

To sum it up, I was having some issues with my 637, I sent it back and weeks later I get a call letting me know the stud broke (what's a revolver stud?) Rendering the revolver irreparable. Two years before this mishap, the gun had to be replaced because the frame cracked after its first 50 rounds.

Having lost complete faith in the 637 and it being back ordered for the next million months, S&W agreed to send me a 638. I had originally asked that it be replaced with a 642, but that would have taken even longer than the 637.

So, I probably won't see my replacement until late October, leaving me without my primary carry gun. This whole situation has soured me to S&W. As far as customer service goes, they are great; everyone is polite, professional and accommodating. It's the level of quality and durability I'm having issues with. I'll give the 638 it's fair shot but I can't say I'll end up keeping it. Just thought I would vent a little as S&W has always been my go to and in feeling let down. Thoughts? Similar stories and experiences perhaps?
 
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BigD_in_FL

Moderator
Sorry, nope. carry a 642, was shooting right for me and others - both LH and RH shooters with different ammo. Sent it back on their dime, got it back in 10 days and all is well...........
 
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g.willikers

New member
No way a revolver stud is a person.
It's probably one of the actual studs inside the works, that locates some of the parts.
Like the trigger, or hammer, for example.
It sounds like another frame failure, sort of.
Eghads, what is the world coming to when Big Name guns become like Saturday night specials.
 
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spacecoast

New member
Being an airweight, I believe the 637 has an aluminum frame (at least my 637-2 does). As such, it probably is more susceptible to such failures as compared to a steel frame revolver. That's not an excuse, but to S&W's defense I think there are likely millions of Airweights in service that have never had a problem, and never will.
 
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FrankenMauser

New member
No way a revolver stud is a person.
It's probably one of the actual studs inside the works, that locates some of the parts.
Like the trigger, or hammer, for example.
It sounds like another frame failure, sort of.
Click to expand...

Yep, it's a frame failure.
The stud I assume they're referring to is the hammer pivot. It's machined out of the frame (or into the frame, depending on your preference).
If it snaps, the hammer gets jammed upward into the frame by the main spring, and everything the hammer interacts with will have problems. (That's pretty much everything under side plate - including the cylinder latch.)



As for my own experience...
I'm not exactly impressed with modern S&Ws.
Case in point: My 642 Lady Smith.
I got it used. It looked like it had seen maybe 10 rounds, and the Texan owner said he had only fired it twice. ("Damn thing hurt my rodeo wrist sumfin' fierce, but I thought maybe I was holdin' it wrong the first time.")

I have put fewer than 100 rounds through it (86, I think). And, it has already shaken itself loose. End-shake. Lockup. Cylinder gap. Timing. Battered cylinder detents and pall. ...They're all getting worse, quickly. In just 10 rounds of +P .38s, timing went from 'just fine' to not locking up on 2 cylinders until the hammer drops. (Yes, I use the prescribed S&W test method of installing spec'd dummy cartridges.) It was at that point, that I stopped shooting it... 2(?) years ago.
In the ~86 rounds that I fired, every critical tolerance has doubled, or worse (end shake is at least 4 times what it was when I got it).


Maybe I should sell it before it completely breaks....
They say that once end shake and battering start to accelerate on a J-frame, it's all over. Short life span.... :rolleyes:
 
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g.willikers

New member
Once upon a time, and not that long ago, (late 1980s - early 1990s) a gunsmith that made custom competition guns around here actually preferred to start with Taurus revolvers, rather than S&W. :eek:
 
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MLeake

New member
20 years allows for a lot of degradation in milling equipment, if it doesn't get consistent preventive maintenance...
 
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lee n. field

New member
Once upon a time, and not that long ago, (late 1980s - early 1990s) a gunsmith that made custom competition guns around here actually preferred to start with Taurus revolvers, rather than S&W.
Click to expand...

And around that time Taurus actually had a custom shop. I remember seeing an article about one of their PPC guns.
 
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James K

Member In Memoriam
I assume the part that broke was the hammer stud, or hammer pin, the part the hammer rotates on. Breakage is very rare but one way it can happen is to remove the sideplate without taking the tension off the mainspring (hammer spring). That leaves only one end of the stud supported and can cause breakage. Dry firing without snap caps can, though very rarely, cause breakage of the hammer stud.

The stud is a replaceable part, but its breakage can damage the frame.

Jim
 
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FrankenMauser

New member
The stud is a replaceable part, but its breakage can damage the frame.
Click to expand...
Memory... it can't be trusted.
I remembered quite clearly that the aluminum J frames I've been inside had the hammer stud machined from the frame. Your comment made me double check some of my own photos and what's available on the 'net; and... it's clearly an installed part.

The older you get, the less you can trust your own memory. :rolleyes:
 
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Kreyzhorse

New member
Every gun and every gun maker can have issues. The real issues is how the company deals with the problems.

While you might have a wait (yes.... it sucks) they are going to take care of the issue and are sending you another model because you asked them too. That unto itself is no small thing.

As far as S&W, you clearly had a funky gun. I don't believe that is is representative of the model or their brand. That said, I also understand the trust issue. When you get it, take it out and shoot the hell out of it. I think it will likely earn your trust back.

Good luck. Please post an update when you get your replacement piece.
 
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tomrkba

New member
I probably won't see my replacement until late October, leaving me without my primary carry gun.
Click to expand...

Eh? Only one primary gun? That is weird. I learned this in a similar way when I first started carrying. My P220 broke and I had no other gun. I ended up buying a second gun while waiting for it to be fixed. Perhaps you should buy a second J-Frame that will fit in your carry rig.

I keep breaking firing pins. Gotta stop dry firing S&W's. Always have a spare in case of breakage or loss.
 
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Sevens

New member
As for my own experience...
I'm not exactly impressed with modern S&Ws.
Case in point: My 642 Lady Smith.
Click to expand...
W h y would you not have already sent this basket case in to S&W and let them make it right or replace it?
 
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FrankenMauser

New member
^^
Because the new ones I've handled have been completely unacceptable.
I'd rather wait for the right time to sell this one, than take my chances with the factory replacement crap shoot. I've seen a few good ones, but the majority have had issues. -- 0.004+ end shake or barrel contact, out of the box, for example; with S&W's repair limit being 0.006", or barrel contact. Half of them never should have left the factory.

Honestly... I'd rather buy a Taurus, than the new J frames I've handled in the last 4 years. And my dealings with Taurus have not been positive at all. :(
 
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Dragline45

New member
I had the same problem on a S&W 60-10, all stainless steel by the way not aluminum. The hammer pin/stud or whatever you want to call it snapped, it's what the hammer pivots on. It rendered the gun totally inoperable and had to be sent back to S&W. They fixed the gun on their dime and had it back on my doorstep in under 2 weeks.

Breakage is very rare but one way it can happen is to remove the sideplate without taking the tension off the mainspring (hammer spring).
Click to expand...

Are you talking about the strain screw? If I recall J frames don't have them. If that's not what you meant care to explain how you would remove the side plate while taking tension off the mainspring?
 
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Webleymkv

New member
Originally posted by Dragline45
Quote:
Breakage is very rare but one way it can happen is to remove the sideplate without taking the tension off the mainspring (hammer spring).

Are you talking about the strain screw? If I recall J frames don't have them. If that's not what you meant care to explain how you would remove the side plate while taking tension off the mainspring?
Click to expand...

While loosening the strain screw obviously isn't possible on a J-Frame, you can take the mainspring's tension off the hammer before removing the sideplate. All you have to do is remove the grips, cock the hammer, insert a small pin (an opened paperclip works fine in my experience) through the hole in the bottom of the mainspring stirrup, and then pull the trigger while easing the hammer down. This will keep the spring captive on the stirrup and remove its tension from the hammer.
 
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Shadi Khalil

New member
Lately, I've been seeing some nice, older j-frames in the used and consignment cases at my lgs. If the right deal is around when I get my replacement, I might have to swap.
 
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James K

Member In Memoriam
In the old guns, the hammer stud was screwed into the frame. Later they went to a press fit, and now they appear to be glued in. It doesn't matter a lot as they are put in from the inside and can only come out that way. The hammer and the sideplate will keep the stud in place no matter how the stud is kept in.

Webleymkv, thanks for the correct reply. Just for all concerned, I recommend use of a paper clip, not a straight pin. I once used a pin when I didn't have a paperclip or a small punch; when I went to pick up the mainspring to put it back in, ouch!

Jim
 
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