I don't see any way moisture could have gotten into the door area. The part of the door where the lock is located is covered with sheetrock and the interior of the door is covered with a piece of sheetrock...covered with a fuzzy type of material. The safe is stored in a very dry environment with a golden rod in it, so I'm thinking the rust is something that is being caused by the sheetrock..which is basically enclosing it.
Rusting in safe..
- Thread starter Old Stony
- Start date
I have four safes sitting side by side with no differences in temp or humidity from their environment. I have come to think the problem is coming from within the problem safe. Just having rust inside a door that is sealed up on both sides with sheetrock and only normally exposed to outside air when the door is opened leads me to believe the problem lies within the safe. Outside humidity cannot get into the safe when it's in the normal condition with the door shut.
i for one will be interested to hear what winchester has to say
did the door show any signs of rust before you took the sheet rock off,,,was the paint pealing?? or bubbling up??
i dont see any signs or have any problems with my winchester safe..ive had it for about 4 years i think,,maybe a little longer...but i may need to give it a good once over,,,,,just for good measure,,,never seen anything rust wise on any of the guns i keep in it
my i ask how long you would keep the safe closed up??....was it opened daily or weekly or monthly???
ocharry
did the door show any signs of rust before you took the sheet rock off,,,was the paint pealing?? or bubbling up??
i dont see any signs or have any problems with my winchester safe..ive had it for about 4 years i think,,maybe a little longer...but i may need to give it a good once over,,,,,just for good measure,,,never seen anything rust wise on any of the guns i keep in it
my i ask how long you would keep the safe closed up??....was it opened daily or weekly or monthly???
ocharry
If it's just the one, look at where it sits. There's moisture getting inside from somewhere. Might be a wet carpet. That'd be cheap fix to change. Lots of places throw out old carpets or pieces of old carpets. If you know an office building maintenance guy, you can get some from him.
Dry wall is gypsum and paper. Both turn to soft mush when wet. And they retain moisture. Neither Golden Rods nor 25 watt light bulbs will warm the space through dry wall either.
"...door that is sealed up..." Any wee air space between the steel and dry wall? That'd be enough for condensation to happen if the door is not air tight.
Dry wall is gypsum and paper. Both turn to soft mush when wet. And they retain moisture. Neither Golden Rods nor 25 watt light bulbs will warm the space through dry wall either.
"...door that is sealed up..." Any wee air space between the steel and dry wall? That'd be enough for condensation to happen if the door is not air tight.
All four of my safes have the same environment. There are no wet spots anywhere near to them. I think possibly the high Sulphur in the sheet rock might be creating the problem. There is evidence that Chinese high Sulphur sheet rock causes such problems. I would suspect that there might be more rust under the carpet lining in the safe, but no way to tell at this point. I got an e-mail from the safe company today, saying they would get back to me tomorrow.
I probably have $25,000 worth of guns that have had some rust problems and something has to be done. Hopefully the safe company will stand behind their warranty and not force me to sue them for damages.
I probably have $25,000 worth of guns that have had some rust problems and something has to be done. Hopefully the safe company will stand behind their warranty and not force me to sue them for damages.
This is different than comparing the humidity in each safe. If one safe is sealed a different way, has a different air flow, different materials, etc. it can cause the humidity in that safe to more more than the others, hence your rust problem. This is why I suggested comparing the humidity in each safe.
I would demand a new safe, if they'll give you one, plus damages. If they won't give you an new one I'd at least get rid of it and get another. $25k is too much to put at risk trying to "fix" this one.
You'll never be comfortable with this safe again and will always be checking it, and your stuff, for new rust.
You'll never be comfortable with this safe again and will always be checking it, and your stuff, for new rust.
Seems like the seal somewhere was compromised. I also agree with adambomb, get a humidity tester and test all 4 of your safes. Yes I know they are all in the same location in the same place in the garage and there is no sign of leaks but again this will help you show that the safe seal has been compromised and may help your case. Hard numbers are better than a calculated hand or eyeball.
Corrosive made in China drywall does not require moisture to become corrosive, it outgasses. My son is a contractor who has removed this stuff from homes.
Approximately 100,000 homes, mostly in the south, were built or re-built using corrosive made in China drywall. There were at least five class action lawsuits.
1. Years ago Winchester closed its safe manufacturing plant and went to China.
2. All Winchester safes were made in China for some time.
3. Winchester lost sales because buyers wanted made in USA safes.
4. Winchester re-built their old factory. Some high dollar safes are currently made in the USA.
5. Some safes are still made in China.
"Made in the USA" is a variable thing. To some companies "made in the USA" is a coat of paint applied to an imported item. Other companies make everything in the USA.
http://gunsafechamp.com/winchester-gun-safes-manufactured/
Click on "Made in the USA gun safes" in upper LH corner.
https://www.gunsafes.com/Winchester...ED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED-=24923224912
Approximately 100,000 homes, mostly in the south, were built or re-built using corrosive made in China drywall. There were at least five class action lawsuits.
1. Years ago Winchester closed its safe manufacturing plant and went to China.
2. All Winchester safes were made in China for some time.
3. Winchester lost sales because buyers wanted made in USA safes.
4. Winchester re-built their old factory. Some high dollar safes are currently made in the USA.
5. Some safes are still made in China.
"Made in the USA" is a variable thing. To some companies "made in the USA" is a coat of paint applied to an imported item. Other companies make everything in the USA.
http://gunsafechamp.com/winchester-gun-safes-manufactured/
Click on "Made in the USA gun safes" in upper LH corner.
https://www.gunsafes.com/Winchester...ED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED-=24923224912
Looking at the image, it appears the wallboard on the inside was wet all along the vertical edge. It could be a roof leak dripped water on the safe where it ran down into the door. It could be someone at the factory left the board lying on its side in a wet place or left a pallet of it out in the rain, wetting the edges of the boards in the middle of the stack before they were assembled into a safe.
The arrow pointing to contact rust in the photo is where there clearly was contact against something when water was present, causing the sharp-edged shape. Wet wallboard would do it. Recessed behind it is an area with a less sharp edge to the rust, suggesting the air was highly humid in that area, but the humidity dropped as you got further toward the center, due to mixing with drier air, so the rusting stopped. If acid in the wallboard is responsible, then I would expect the rust to be much more uniformly distributed all over the steel.
The GoldenRod or a light bulb may still solve the issue if water is involved. How they work is commonly misunderstood. Long ago (see Hatcher's Notebook from about pages 345 through 350) it was worked out that relative humidity (RH) holds the key to rusting. Even a bore that had corrosive primer residue in it was found not to rust aggressively until RH became about 68% or a bit higher. It doesn’t matter if it is 68% RH at 50°F or 68% RH at 100°F, that’s the threshold. Temperature difference alone doesn’t make the difference.
Relative humidity is just the amount of water dissolved in air as a percent of the maximum amount of water the air can dissolve. What makes it "relative" instead of just some absolute number of grams of water per cubic meter of air or per kilogram of air is that the maximum amount of water air can dissolve changes with temperature. So, the percentage is relative to how much water air can hold at a particular air temperature. If you can raise the temperature without letting more water into the air, the RH goes down because warm air can dissolve and hold more water than cooler air can. If the air inside and outside the safe is 100ۜ°F and 80% RH and a 25W heater can raise the temperature inside to 110°F, without added water, the RH drops to about 60% and rusting becomes much less aggressive, even in the presence of salt.
That’s why the GoldenRod is advertised to reduce humidity even though it removes no water. All you need to prevent rust is for the air to try to hold onto the water harder than the steel or salt tries to get hold of it. There isn’t actually exact RH at which the salt rust simply ceases because the whole thing is a giant equilibrium condition shift of rates at which water molecules attach to steel and get dried by off by air wanting it more. Instead, ability to rust fades as humidity goes down, first rather sharply (at a different RH for each type of salt) and then more gradually until you get to about 30% RH, below which air is so aggressive at gathering water that for all practical purposes steel can’t rust at all. However, 30% would dry out and crack wood stocks as well, so there really is such a thing as too much of a good thing where lowering RH is concerned.
Winchester safe company contacted me today and they are shipping me out another safe next week. They viewed the pic's I sent them and apparently decided there was a problem with the safe and they would honor the warranty. I find this as big gesture on their part as they could have tried to twist things in a manner to get out of the whole problem.
Regardless of some opinions, this safe was kept in a good environment and moisture was not a factor in the problem. I would like to see them start coating the metal inside the safe and I think that could do a lot to stop this sort of problem.
My only problem now concerns getting the new safe into my garage next week, as they only deliver them to curbside, and the one coming weighs 898 lbs., and I need to figure out what I am going to do with the old safe as they don't want it back. They are not fun to move around on a concrete floor.
Regardless of some opinions, this safe was kept in a good environment and moisture was not a factor in the problem. I would like to see them start coating the metal inside the safe and I think that could do a lot to stop this sort of problem.
My only problem now concerns getting the new safe into my garage next week, as they only deliver them to curbside, and the one coming weighs 898 lbs., and I need to figure out what I am going to do with the old safe as they don't want it back. They are not fun to move around on a concrete floor.
stephen426
New member
I’m glad they are honoring their warranty on it. Hope you didn’t get too much damage to your guns. Living in South Florida and less than a mile from the ocean, humidity and the salt air can wreak havoc on guns. I use a golden rod and rechargeable dessicants in my safe. They’ll beside to avoid pouches as those can trap moisture the dessicants can’t pull out. I just noticed some rust on the sights of my Springfield Armory Loaded. 
Got the replacement safe in yesterday, and got it stuck into place in the garage. Between a friend and I, the delivery fellow, and two workers that were here to install a new A/C system..we managed to get it off the pallet and into place. Winchester did honor the warranty in a gracious manner and without any trying to wiggle out of it. It is nice to see a company that will back up their products like this.