Ruger's new LCP .380
- Thread starter 115scott
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OldShooter
New member
LRC
I saw one today and held it in my hand; pretty small, very much like a Keltec. Too small for me.
I saw one today and held it in my hand; pretty small, very much like a Keltec. Too small for me.
Did Ruger use the Kel-Tec design (with improvements)? Of course.
Did Ruger violate any patents? No.
If you're going to condemn Ruger for that, you also condemn at least 20 AR-15 rifle makers, at least 20 1911 pistol makers/importers, and at least 10 makers/importers of Peacemaker clones.
You condemn at least two makers of M1 carbines, 10 AK-47 makers/importers, and so on.
Denis
Did Ruger violate any patents? No.
If you're going to condemn Ruger for that, you also condemn at least 20 AR-15 rifle makers, at least 20 1911 pistol makers/importers, and at least 10 makers/importers of Peacemaker clones.
You condemn at least two makers of M1 carbines, 10 AK-47 makers/importers, and so on.
Denis
thrgunsmith
New member
I went and bought one today
Based on Rugers rep alone, didn't intend on anything but a holster but it just jumped into hands yelling BUY NOW.
(354$ out the door, no brady due to ccw
)
Anyone have experience with .380 ammo?
Good practice and what about carry ammo, any suggestions?
Based on Rugers rep alone, didn't intend on anything but a holster but it just jumped into hands yelling BUY NOW.
(354$ out the door, no brady due to ccw
)Anyone have experience with .380 ammo?
Good practice and what about carry ammo, any suggestions?
I looked at one at Scheel's in Lincoln today and it is very small. I don't have very big hands and my bottom two fingers were not on the grip. I can't imagine it to be very easy to shoot at all regardless of the range you expect to shoot it at. the one they had was not for sale but they would put you down on waiting list at $300 a piece to reserve one. I think I will look for a PPK or PPK/s
Crappy pistol. Several members over at sigforum have purchased them and have had major failures including breaking firing pins and damaged frames.
One of the members recieved a letter from ruger stating that this pistol has a relatively short shelf life and shouldn't be used at the range, only for self defense.
Again, ruger, they name is crap.
One of the members recieved a letter from ruger stating that this pistol has a relatively short shelf life and shouldn't be used at the range, only for self defense.
Again, ruger, they name is crap.
whichfinger
New member
For SD I use Remington Golden Saber; others like Corbon. Both work, pick the one you think is prettiest.
My BERSA likes just about every brand out there, except for the Blazer aluminum cased stuff. It works, but it's the only ammo that's given me stovepipes, about one-in-twenty or so rounds. The BERSA warranty center guy says don't use Wolf, so I haven't. For practice, use whatever you can get. I won't say use the cheap stuff 'cause in .380 there ain't none.Hmm...hope it's better than their other new pistol the SR9, Ruger has issued a recall in order to repair them...
RUGER® SR9™ PRODUCT SAFETY WARNING AND RECALL NOTICE
DO NOT USE YOUR RUGER SR9 PISTOL
We have determined that some Ruger SR9 pistols manufactured between October 2007 and April 2008 can, under certain conditions, fire if dropped with their manual safeties in the "off" or "fire" position. The pistols will not fire if the manual safety is in the "on" or "safe" position.
We will retrofit all Ruger SR9 pistols starting with serial number prefix “330” (330-xxxxx) with these new parts at no charge to our customers.
In order to ensure correct fitting, these new parts must be installed at our Ruger factory in Prescott, Arizona. We will remove the old parts and install the new group promptly, at no charge, and will return the pistol to you. The old parts will not be returned.
Step 1 - Contact us and provide your name, address, telephone number and SR9 serial number.
Provide your information by any of the following:
Website: SR9 Recall On-line Form
E-mail: SR9Recall@ruger.com
Fax: (928) 541-8873
Phone: SR9 Recall Hotline
1-800-784-3701
(available Monday - Friday, 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. EDT)
Step 2 - When we are ready to retrofit your SR9, we will send you a shipping label and shipping box with instructions so you can return your pistol to us FREE of charge.
Step 3 - We will install the new trigger group in your SR9 and return it to you FREE of charge. When we do, we also will send you a FREE extra magazine as a "thank you" for your patience and cooperation. We will make every effort to return your pistol within one week, so we will not ask you to send it to us until we are ready to receive it. We expect to begin sending shipping labels and boxes in mid-May.
Do not load or fire your pistol until it has been factory retrofitted with these new parts! If you must fire your pistol, be sure to keep the manual safety in the "on" or "safe" position except when you are actually firing.
Thank you,
Sturm, Ruger & Co., Inc.
I happen to love my Ruger revolvers and 10/22 though
RUGER® SR9™ PRODUCT SAFETY WARNING AND RECALL NOTICE
DO NOT USE YOUR RUGER SR9 PISTOL
We have determined that some Ruger SR9 pistols manufactured between October 2007 and April 2008 can, under certain conditions, fire if dropped with their manual safeties in the "off" or "fire" position. The pistols will not fire if the manual safety is in the "on" or "safe" position.
We will retrofit all Ruger SR9 pistols starting with serial number prefix “330” (330-xxxxx) with these new parts at no charge to our customers.
In order to ensure correct fitting, these new parts must be installed at our Ruger factory in Prescott, Arizona. We will remove the old parts and install the new group promptly, at no charge, and will return the pistol to you. The old parts will not be returned.
Step 1 - Contact us and provide your name, address, telephone number and SR9 serial number.
Provide your information by any of the following:
Website: SR9 Recall On-line Form
E-mail: SR9Recall@ruger.com
Fax: (928) 541-8873
Phone: SR9 Recall Hotline
1-800-784-3701
(available Monday - Friday, 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. EDT)
Step 2 - When we are ready to retrofit your SR9, we will send you a shipping label and shipping box with instructions so you can return your pistol to us FREE of charge.
Step 3 - We will install the new trigger group in your SR9 and return it to you FREE of charge. When we do, we also will send you a FREE extra magazine as a "thank you" for your patience and cooperation. We will make every effort to return your pistol within one week, so we will not ask you to send it to us until we are ready to receive it. We expect to begin sending shipping labels and boxes in mid-May.
Do not load or fire your pistol until it has been factory retrofitted with these new parts! If you must fire your pistol, be sure to keep the manual safety in the "on" or "safe" position except when you are actually firing.
Thank you,
Sturm, Ruger & Co., Inc.
I happen to love my Ruger revolvers and 10/22 though
Stage,
You're not entirely exact on your LCP statements.
It was not "several" SIG Forum members who had "major failures" including broken firing pins & damaged frames. One guy broke his firing pin during extensive dry-firing and the early LCPs had a minor design flaw apparently carried over from the Kel-Tec that peened an internal corner of the alluminum sub-frame, causing peening on that shoulder and wild ejection & case rim damage. Ruger does not recommend such extended dry-firing (simply don't do it), and the frame issues were not causing functional failures in any case I'm aware of. That frame peening has since been corrected by Ruger in current production, along with the overly enthusiastic ejection it was causing.
You may be quoting (VERY loosely) me on the letter thing from my posts on that forum. In working with Ruger on the LCP, they and I were trying to educate some people in their exaggerated expectations of what they thought the pistol should be.
I got no letter from Ruger, but did talk & email with three people inside the company about it, along with testing two samples, one "before" and one "after" the frame correction.
The LCP is not a "crappy pistol". Neither Ruger nor I said it "shouldn't be used at the range, only for self-defense". What we did say was that it was not built or intended to be a general purpose high-round-count "combat" pistol, was not designed or intended for either the same role or the same durability of the larger pistols, was not built to hold up to indefinite range sessions of 200 or so rounds two or three times a month (as some were talking about), was not built to be a range toy or a range plinker, was never envisioned as a "fun" gun, WAS constructed in a size envelope and materials package that involved certain realities and compromises at a certain price level, and WAS built to be a close-in last ditch, backup, or highly concealable defensive gun that can go places no larger gun can.
It was built for defense, not for play. That certainly does not mean you can't put rounds through it at the range. My comments were in the context of other posters' comments suggesting a primary carry pistol had to have certain characteristcs which included much dry-fire, much hard reloading ("combat reloads" slamming magazines in), regular range practice, and so on.
That can all be done, but it'll very simply wear the LCP out much faster than it would with a pistol designed for it with larger parts that can handle the stresses involved longer.
The "relatively" short life remains true, IN THAT CONTEXT, but does not mean the thing will blow up in your hand or fall apart if you shoot it a bunch. You'll just wear it out quicker, and may cause it to reach a point where it could (I said COULD, not WOULD) fail just when you need it to save your butt if you did shoot it to pieces at the range. There is no known max ceiling on the round count lifespan of the LCP, but it cannot reasonably be expected to rival the bigger Ruger P Series pistols, for example, in longevity. Some posters have said, in essence, that if it's a Ruger, it's gotta be a tank because Ruger builds tanks & if it says Ruger on it it's gotta be a tank. Not true. That does not mean it's a trash pistol. This is a first for Ruger, it cannot be compared to anything they've done before, and I don't want the LCP to give the company a black eye early on solely because people who don't understand it take it beyond its design parameters.
Ruger built it to answer customer requests for a small & concealable concealed carry pistol. Used within its design & materials parameters, it'll do the job it was created to do.
I will buy the second test sample I have here, may even buy the first one & return it to Ruger for the frame correction. Both surprised me with their 25-yard accuracy, way beyond anything I'd expected in such a package, and, parenthetically, way beyond any distance I'd ever expect to use it at. The trigger, tiny sights, and tiny size overall are not well suited to longer distances free-hand in a hurry. It's created to be a point'n shoot at ten feet.
After working with it, I think the gun's viable. I'm quite willing to use mine in the role it was created for as needed, and I don't do that lightly.
I will, however, do so with reality firmly in mind, and I will not be "training" with it, I will not be practicing speed reloads, I will not be practicing left or right-hand barricade shooting, I will not be practicing speed draws, and I will not be putting several hundred rounds a week through it at the range.
The gun is not junk, it just has its limitations, and if your expectations are in line with its capabilities, I've seen no reason to turn my nose up at it.
Denis
You're not entirely exact on your LCP statements.
It was not "several" SIG Forum members who had "major failures" including broken firing pins & damaged frames. One guy broke his firing pin during extensive dry-firing and the early LCPs had a minor design flaw apparently carried over from the Kel-Tec that peened an internal corner of the alluminum sub-frame, causing peening on that shoulder and wild ejection & case rim damage. Ruger does not recommend such extended dry-firing (simply don't do it), and the frame issues were not causing functional failures in any case I'm aware of. That frame peening has since been corrected by Ruger in current production, along with the overly enthusiastic ejection it was causing.
You may be quoting (VERY loosely) me on the letter thing from my posts on that forum. In working with Ruger on the LCP, they and I were trying to educate some people in their exaggerated expectations of what they thought the pistol should be.
I got no letter from Ruger, but did talk & email with three people inside the company about it, along with testing two samples, one "before" and one "after" the frame correction.
The LCP is not a "crappy pistol". Neither Ruger nor I said it "shouldn't be used at the range, only for self-defense". What we did say was that it was not built or intended to be a general purpose high-round-count "combat" pistol, was not designed or intended for either the same role or the same durability of the larger pistols, was not built to hold up to indefinite range sessions of 200 or so rounds two or three times a month (as some were talking about), was not built to be a range toy or a range plinker, was never envisioned as a "fun" gun, WAS constructed in a size envelope and materials package that involved certain realities and compromises at a certain price level, and WAS built to be a close-in last ditch, backup, or highly concealable defensive gun that can go places no larger gun can.
It was built for defense, not for play. That certainly does not mean you can't put rounds through it at the range. My comments were in the context of other posters' comments suggesting a primary carry pistol had to have certain characteristcs which included much dry-fire, much hard reloading ("combat reloads" slamming magazines in), regular range practice, and so on.
That can all be done, but it'll very simply wear the LCP out much faster than it would with a pistol designed for it with larger parts that can handle the stresses involved longer.
The "relatively" short life remains true, IN THAT CONTEXT, but does not mean the thing will blow up in your hand or fall apart if you shoot it a bunch. You'll just wear it out quicker, and may cause it to reach a point where it could (I said COULD, not WOULD) fail just when you need it to save your butt if you did shoot it to pieces at the range. There is no known max ceiling on the round count lifespan of the LCP, but it cannot reasonably be expected to rival the bigger Ruger P Series pistols, for example, in longevity. Some posters have said, in essence, that if it's a Ruger, it's gotta be a tank because Ruger builds tanks & if it says Ruger on it it's gotta be a tank. Not true. That does not mean it's a trash pistol. This is a first for Ruger, it cannot be compared to anything they've done before, and I don't want the LCP to give the company a black eye early on solely because people who don't understand it take it beyond its design parameters.
Ruger built it to answer customer requests for a small & concealable concealed carry pistol. Used within its design & materials parameters, it'll do the job it was created to do.
I will buy the second test sample I have here, may even buy the first one & return it to Ruger for the frame correction. Both surprised me with their 25-yard accuracy, way beyond anything I'd expected in such a package, and, parenthetically, way beyond any distance I'd ever expect to use it at. The trigger, tiny sights, and tiny size overall are not well suited to longer distances free-hand in a hurry. It's created to be a point'n shoot at ten feet.
After working with it, I think the gun's viable. I'm quite willing to use mine in the role it was created for as needed, and I don't do that lightly.
I will, however, do so with reality firmly in mind, and I will not be "training" with it, I will not be practicing speed reloads, I will not be practicing left or right-hand barricade shooting, I will not be practicing speed draws, and I will not be putting several hundred rounds a week through it at the range.
The gun is not junk, it just has its limitations, and if your expectations are in line with its capabilities, I've seen no reason to turn my nose up at it.
Denis
Bill DeShivs
New member
Denis
I agree. Same as with the Keltecs-some people just can't comprehend the concept. They are the same ones that are always bad-mouthing these specialty guns.
I agree. Same as with the Keltecs-some people just can't comprehend the concept. They are the same ones that are always bad-mouthing these specialty guns.
Troll Alert!!
and...
Obviously, neither one of you guys have EVER owned a Ruger semi-auto. The people that actually do OVERWHELMINGLY say that they are reliable if nothing else.
I have owned several Rugers (including the SR9) and will buy the LCP as soon as I can find one. I HAVE NEVER HAD A SINGLE FAILURE OF ANY KIND WITH ANY RUGER I'VE EVER OWNED. Am I alone in the world? I doubt it. I've owned and still own lots of other brands and none have been more reliable. Oh, the heresy!!
There are guys out there that just can't stand the idea of a less expensive handgun that might be just be as good as their hundred$ more expensive Sig/HK/1911/whatever.
Sure, I am a little disapointed that there is a recall on my SR9. The problem is potentially serious. But, Ruger is doing the right thing and reaching out to owners to fix the issue rather than denying that any problem exists. Other companies could learn a lot here on how to care for their customers.
Save the bitterness for the mothers that obviously didn't hug you enough as small children.
and...
Obviously, neither one of you guys have EVER owned a Ruger semi-auto. The people that actually do OVERWHELMINGLY say that they are reliable if nothing else.
I have owned several Rugers (including the SR9) and will buy the LCP as soon as I can find one. I HAVE NEVER HAD A SINGLE FAILURE OF ANY KIND WITH ANY RUGER I'VE EVER OWNED. Am I alone in the world? I doubt it. I've owned and still own lots of other brands and none have been more reliable. Oh, the heresy!!
There are guys out there that just can't stand the idea of a less expensive handgun that might be just be as good as their hundred$ more expensive Sig/HK/1911/whatever.
Sure, I am a little disapointed that there is a recall on my SR9. The problem is potentially serious. But, Ruger is doing the right thing and reaching out to owners to fix the issue rather than denying that any problem exists. Other companies could learn a lot here on how to care for their customers.
Save the bitterness for the mothers that obviously didn't hug you enough as small children.
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Stevie-Ray
New member
I agree, I currently own a KelTec P32 that I use for BUG always and primary far too often. There was no P3AT when I bought it, and even though I like my P32 and it has been totally reliable, I will eventually replace it with a Ruger LCP. I believe in Ruger, have always loved the Rugers I own, and I will simply feel a little better about keeping a Ruger on me than a KT. Failure and reliability stories are real, even if they're not your own, and with a gun that you don't shoot much, why take the chance? I'll wait a while longer to hear the ins and outs, but I'll bet the Ruger will come out on top for me.
Here's one of the threads.
http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/430601935/m/1081078911/p/1
You're right. For some reason I had a major brain fart and didn't realize that you were the same guy defending the LCP over on sigforum. If I did remember this, then I certianly would have included some of your greatest hits like...
It was not designed for extensive use, Ruger did not intend it to be repeatedly dry-fired, and doing so is not advisable. Very simply, if you push it beyond its design envelope, you will run into problems.
The fault lies not with the pistol, but with unrealistic expectations.
basic handling does not require frequent use, maintenance, and dry-firing. This pistol is not designed for that.
The LCP should not be judged by the same standards as a larger pistol built for regular use because it simply isn't one.
My personal favorite is when you said...
Ruger says the pistol will handle the occasional dry-fire involved in shooting a magazine dry and pulling the trigger again on an empty chamber without realizing it.
...and then several others pointed out that it doesn't say this anywhere in the manual or on the website. The only thing anywhere about the LCP is "legendary reliability" and "dependable backup".
Yes the gun is junk, and here's why. You told everyone at sigforum about the pistols "limitations" and are doing the same here. Just out of curiosity, what are these limitations. I don't see how size is a limitation. My PPK and Makarov will run all day long whether I abuse them or not. Granted they are larger, but not by that much. Of course theres also my seecamp. Its markedly smaller, but the only limitation with that pistol is how much my hand can take. Like I said in the other thread, size only becomes a limiting factor when substandard materials or substandard designs are used.
And then there's the "handling" issue. To refresh the audience here, the pistol in question was new and was being dry fired by the owner when it sent a chunk of the firing pin down the barrel. I'm sorry, but a pistol that says NOTHING about dryfiring and is marketed as a DEFENSIVE pistol, should be able to withstand dryfiring, certianly the 80 or so times that this gent did.
Of course that brings us to the larger issue, namely how ruger views a defensive weapon. If I'm going to use something to defend my life, then prudence demands that I practice with it until I'm proficient. Two mags a month doesn't cut it. Shooting slowly and babying the pistol with reloads and clearing drills doesn't cut it. You might be fine with this, and thats ok. However for the rest of us that want to be prepared its not. I don't expect a belly gun to be able to match the standards of a duty gun. However this isn't a license to simply throw all the standards away. Just because it can't go 15k rounds between overhauls and be frozen or dropped from a helo doesn't mean that it shouldn't be expected to perform. The fact that a gun owner would go on ANY board and defend a pistol MARKETED for defensive use and say that its not intended for regular shooting just blows my mind. Are they selling LCP's or liberators?
Of course then there is it ultimate issue. Even if I were to agree with everything you've said, the problem is that YOU are the one saying it, not ruger. Ruger is sitting there and talking about reliability and dependability and defensive use. I haven't seen ANYTHING from ruger even hinting that someone should treat this pistol gingerly. Thats just being dishonest. If they included something that outlined what you said, thats one thing. They havent however.
So, in summation, the pistol is crappy. If I have to lower my expectations so far that it is at the cost of proper practice, then the gun isn't worth it. If this is the case WITHOUT the company bothering to notify the consumer, then they aren't a company to deal with.
daferg2 said:
And what makes you and all of your 82 posts qualified to make that determination?
Ah yes. The SR9. Hows that recall going.
Bill DeShivs
New member
As I said-some people can't understand the concept......
The Makarov and PPK are twice the weight of the Keltec and Ruger copy. They are larger, too-by quite a bit.
The K/T-Ruger guns are not particularly delicate guns. They are designed for a very specific purpose. Most guns should not be dry fired-it's a sure way to break firing pins.
I'm sure any of these guns will hold up to proficiency practice for normal people. I'm proficient with my Keltecs, and it certainly didn't take me thousands of rounds to become so.
BTW-post count says nothing about qualifications-it says that you like to be heard. That seems obvious in this case.
If you don't like/understand the guns, don't buy one.
My bet is that you haven't owned one.
The Makarov and PPK are twice the weight of the Keltec and Ruger copy. They are larger, too-by quite a bit.
The K/T-Ruger guns are not particularly delicate guns. They are designed for a very specific purpose. Most guns should not be dry fired-it's a sure way to break firing pins.
I'm sure any of these guns will hold up to proficiency practice for normal people. I'm proficient with my Keltecs, and it certainly didn't take me thousands of rounds to become so.
BTW-post count says nothing about qualifications-it says that you like to be heard. That seems obvious in this case.
If you don't like/understand the guns, don't buy one.
My bet is that you haven't owned one.
Hence what I said about quality materials. Of course theres always the seecamp. Size and quality are not mutually exclusive.
And apparently range time isn't one of them.
So after the hundreds of lawyer labels in the owners manual, Ruger just couldn't be bothered to write this down? How about putting it on the website.
And it didn't take thousands of rounds to break this one either.
Actually it says that it would behoove someone who has been here less than 2 months to stop and think before pulling the troll card on someone who's been here 6 years. Especially so in a conversation he wasn't involved in.
You're right. I don't own one for the same reason I don't own a hi-point or a jennings, or anything else that "kinda sorta made to shoot, but not lots".
The problem with this pistol is that ruger isn't set up to handle something of this scale. Their castings work fine in massive revolvers and blocky semi autos. However when things get smaller, quality needs to go up in order to keep things running, and the same methods that ruger has used in other guns doesn't work so well there.
If this was a single incident then it could be chalked up to a lemon. However we have several of these incidents happening on new pistols, the SR9 debacle, and the fact that ruger is marketing these weapons as reliable and dependable defensive tool with ABSOLUTELY NO caveats.
Sorry, but thats either crappy design or crappy construction, and bogus marketing in both cases.
Wow
I have nothing against Ruger, as I said at the end of my post, I own a couple revolvers and a 10/22 made by them. If you detected "bitterness" in my post, you were experiencing a hallucination. I like the idea of the LCP, but since I own a KT P3AT, it isn't high on my "to buy" list at this time. They are doing the right thing regarding the SR-9, all I did was point out the fact that a recall was in effect.