Aguila Blanca
Staff
44 AMP said:
But the Ruger problem isn't (or wasn't, if they have actually fixed it by now) "wrong" size cylinder throats, it was different size throats on each of the holes in the same cylinder.
Ruger New Vaquero vs Uberti El Patron
- Thread starter Lurch37
- Start date
But the Ruger problem isn't (or wasn't, if they have actually fixed it by now) "wrong" size cylinder throats, it was different size throats on each of the holes in the same cylinder.
I'm not denying it, I'm sure its not a issue made up from whole cloth, but I've never seen it. Admittedly part of that might be because I've never looked for it, all the Ruger .45s I've had shot well, and I have a strong "if it works, don't fix it" streak.
I've read a lot of "it wasn't good" or "it wasn't good enough until I did X" where they almost never give details of how it wasn't good enough, only crowing about how they fixed it, and what they had to do.
Not just Ruger throats, but all kinds of gun stuff. I used to do a lot of "fixing" gun things. Over the years I learned that a lot of what I did wasn't needed, and sometimes didn't fix an issue, only changed it.
Eventually I grew into a place where, if the gun works well enough to satisfy me, I don't tinker with it just because I can.
Maybe I have some kind of magic aura that keeps bad Rugers away from me, I don't know, all I know is that in the 40+ years I've owned and used Ruger rifles and pistols, I've never had one that needed to go back to Ruger or needed any smith work at all. Had two small problems decades apart, one where a bad round blew out the extractor of my 10/22 and the other where the assy that holds in the cylinder pin of a .44 Vaquero unscrewed and one part got lost. Both times, Ruger sent me the parts and I fixed the guns at home.
I've read a lot of "it wasn't good" or "it wasn't good enough until I did X" where they almost never give details of how it wasn't good enough, only crowing about how they fixed it, and what they had to do.
Not just Ruger throats, but all kinds of gun stuff. I used to do a lot of "fixing" gun things. Over the years I learned that a lot of what I did wasn't needed, and sometimes didn't fix an issue, only changed it.
Eventually I grew into a place where, if the gun works well enough to satisfy me, I don't tinker with it just because I can.
Maybe I have some kind of magic aura that keeps bad Rugers away from me, I don't know, all I know is that in the 40+ years I've owned and used Ruger rifles and pistols, I've never had one that needed to go back to Ruger or needed any smith work at all. Had two small problems decades apart, one where a bad round blew out the extractor of my 10/22 and the other where the assy that holds in the cylinder pin of a .44 Vaquero unscrewed and one part got lost. Both times, Ruger sent me the parts and I fixed the guns at home.
jackmoser65
New member
It is and was long before the internet. Internet forums may have brought greater awareness to it but it was always there and there have long been gunsmiths addressing the problem. It's a point of fact that you're not going to get much accuracy forcing a 452 bullet down a 448 throat. Poor accuracy and leading is the result. Colt still can't get their act together. They're still shipping guns with throats sized more appropriately for 45-70's than 45 colts. Most commercial bullets are 452, even 454's are hard to find. Probably not a good idea to be forcing 458" bullets down a 45 colt bore either. When everything is right wonderful things happen. When they're wrong frustration is the result.
The oversized chambers result in lowered pressure, decreased velocity and over worked brass.
Granted, a lot of people on the internet obsess unnecessarily about fixing stuff before they even shoot a new gun. You really need to shoot something before you go fixing it. It's probably overstated but the issues are still very real.
Does anyone have any real data, or even stories about problems with the cylinder throats of Ruger .357s???
Because that's the Ruger the OP is considering. Discussing Ruger's issues with their .45s isn't really on topic, and yes, I'm guilty too, but I think its time to get back on topic.
I haven't heard about any issues/problems with the Ruger New Vaquero in .357, other then the early ones with the case color finish having the finish wear rapidly. The gun the OP is looking at is stainless, so that's not an issue.
Because that's the Ruger the OP is considering. Discussing Ruger's issues with their .45s isn't really on topic, and yes, I'm guilty too, but I think its time to get back on topic.
I haven't heard about any issues/problems with the Ruger New Vaquero in .357, other then the early ones with the case color finish having the finish wear rapidly. The gun the OP is looking at is stainless, so that's not an issue.
stinkeypete
New member
There used to be occasional problems with the throats in .44 and .45. I never heard a thing about any trouble in .357!
While I love blued metal and wood, for a working gun it's hard to beat stainless. If it get scratched, you buff it out with a green 3M scrubby.
I have owned almost a dozen Blackhawk variations and all of them have been outstanding. Perhaps a bit heavy, but you never wonder if they are up to the task. Or beyond.
While I love blued metal and wood, for a working gun it's hard to beat stainless. If it get scratched, you buff it out with a green 3M scrubby.
I have owned almost a dozen Blackhawk variations and all of them have been outstanding. Perhaps a bit heavy, but you never wonder if they are up to the task. Or beyond.
I was able to handle both pistols today and even managed to heft a Blackhawk they had, although it was in 45 Colt. I will decide in the next day or so but right now and as I think about them all, the Uberti has the upperhand.
With all 3 pistols being quality arms, the Blackhawk is out due to it's not in the caliber I'm seeking, it's all blued and it's really not the "look" I'm after. The New Vaquero is out simply because it's stainless and my eye is always drawn back to the blue/case colored Uberti.
Maybe if I can find a nice lever gun in 45 Colt, a stainless New Vaquero would go good with it. Thank you all for your input.
With all 3 pistols being quality arms, the Blackhawk is out due to it's not in the caliber I'm seeking, it's all blued and it's really not the "look" I'm after. The New Vaquero is out simply because it's stainless and my eye is always drawn back to the blue/case colored Uberti.
Maybe if I can find a nice lever gun in 45 Colt, a stainless New Vaquero would go good with it. Thank you all for your input.
jackmoser65
New member
No you're right. As Pete said, usually 45s, occasionally 44s but never 357s.
I like both.
Don't own a Uberti but do own a couple of Cimarron and Taylor SAAs which I think are derived from Uberti ... The only thing that gets me is I have to take a screw driver along. It only takes a few shots and every screw on the guns are 'loose' and need to be tightened. Of course the Ruger has this happen now and then, but not the way these guns do. But oh how I like to strap on my gun belt with a .45 Colt 5 1/2" SAA in the holster.... Just something about that (history? maybe?) , that Ruger just can't match... And don't get me wrong, I really like my Ruger SAs as well which I shoot more often.
As for stainless, ugggh. Looks very 'unfinished' to me
. I guess if you are lost you can wave it at a plane . Beauty is in the eye of the beholder though . Of course it could be worse... like those Cerakote covered guns .
As for .357 throats, the new Ruger medium frame flattops I own, I can push the correct size bullet with finger pressure into each of the six throats. So diameter okay there.
Don't own a Uberti but do own a couple of Cimarron and Taylor SAAs which I think are derived from Uberti ... The only thing that gets me is I have to take a screw driver along. It only takes a few shots and every screw on the guns are 'loose' and need to be tightened. Of course the Ruger has this happen now and then, but not the way these guns do. But oh how I like to strap on my gun belt with a .45 Colt 5 1/2" SAA in the holster.... Just something about that (history? maybe?) , that Ruger just can't match... And don't get me wrong, I really like my Ruger SAs as well which I shoot more often.
As for stainless, ugggh. Looks very 'unfinished' to me
. I guess if you are lost you can wave it at a plane . Beauty is in the eye of the beholder though . Of course it could be worse... like those Cerakote covered guns .As for .357 throats, the new Ruger medium frame flattops I own, I can push the correct size bullet with finger pressure into each of the six throats. So diameter okay there.
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I had problems with springs and hands on Uberti revolvers with heavy use but I could not pass a used New Vaquero for $250 with broken grips a few years ago and is a very solid gun. The faux ivory grips that I had put on it are a little too slick for comfort, though. Everybody that shot it so far was surprised how little recoil they felt in .38 Special and .357 Magnum.
One thing to really think hard about is looks vs utility? You bought 357 for versatility and utility. Do you want a fun companion gun to shoot along with your lever gun or one that looks like an original colt single action? Is it fun to miss? Fixed sight guns are notoriously difficult to shoot a variety of loads through effectively because each will pattern to a different point of aim. If it hits with 125 grain will it be on with 140s or 158s? I personally don't find single action grips very comfortable but bought one of the limited run of 5 shot 6.5 inch barrel 454 Casul super Blackhawks to have a gun in that caliber in case I ever move to Bear country. It has adjustable sights. My 357 lever gun pairs fine with my 6 inch 686 which is a very good single and double action field gun. So my recommendation is to leave the foo foo fixed sight single actions for the gun smoke 45 Colt crowd planning to shoot CAS and get yourself a 686 or GP100 to pair with your lever gun. If you want a single action, how about a Blackhawk Bisley in 357 magnum with adjustable sights or regular Blackhawk with spare 9mm luger cylinder. Now that would be a very practical single action plinker! No centerfire is cheaper to shoot store bought ammo through than 9mm and it will shoot 357 mag with the other cylinder any time you want the extra power! Ruger has blued guns too just not case colored ones. Again Looks or Utility?
https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/the-ruger-bisley-models-serious-revolvers-for-shooters/
https://ruger.com/products/newModelBlackhawkConvertible/specSheets/5245.html
https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/the-ruger-bisley-models-serious-revolvers-for-shooters/
https://ruger.com/products/newModelBlackhawkConvertible/specSheets/5245.html
You definitely need to find a load you like to shoot and stick with it when shooting fixed sighted guns. That isn't a problem for me as I found the loads I want to shoot. For example in .357, it is a 158gr SWC going around 1100fps. Powders may vary, but the velocity is relatively the same regardless. Reloading does have it's advantages.
As for single action grips, they suit me right down to the ground. Nothing more comfortable than the o' SAA wood or bone grip unless shooting the barn burners in .44 or .45 caliber. Since my normal loads are 1100fps or less in the big bore... Not a problem. However when I do get a nutty thought and shoot heavy loads, then a Bisley grip seems to work better ... for me. Each to there own though . DA revolvers can stay 'home' or in the 'store' for the most part.
As for single action grips, they suit me right down to the ground. Nothing more comfortable than the o' SAA wood or bone grip unless shooting the barn burners in .44 or .45 caliber. Since my normal loads are 1100fps or less in the big bore... Not a problem. However when I do get a nutty thought and shoot heavy loads, then a Bisley grip seems to work better ... for me. Each to there own though
. DA revolvers can stay 'home' or in the 'store' for the most part.The Ruger will always be the more desirable revolver .
In 1971 I bought a Ruger Blackhawk , it has been my only 357 magnum , so it gets shot a lot ... lots of 38 Special get shot throught it ... Not one part has ever broken .
We both are still in great shape and shooting just fine ...
The Ruger will last you .. My advice ... Ruger !
Gary
In 1971 I bought a Ruger Blackhawk , it has been my only 357 magnum , so it gets shot a lot ... lots of 38 Special get shot throught it ... Not one part has ever broken .
We both are still in great shape and shooting just fine ...
The Ruger will last you .. My advice ... Ruger !
Gary
Electrod47
New member
I have both...If I could have only one. It would be the Ruger. That's just me and nothing negative on the El Patron.
Driftwood Johnson
New member
Hogwash!!!
I have been shooting Black Powder cartridges in real Colts and clones for over 20 years. If you know how to properly prepare the insides of the revolver for shooting Black Powder, it is completely unnecessary to disassemble it every time for cleaning.
Regarding broken springs, yes, occaisionally a hand spring or trigger/bolt spring will break. Pictured are a broken trigger/bolt spring and a broken bolt from a 2nd Gen Colt. Yes, these parts did break, but I have a half dozen Colts, some of which are over 100 years old, and the springs are still working fine.
Name of One Who Uses
New member
Well, no they aren't. Uberti's are slightly larger in size than Colt SA's and actually are physically very similar to New Vaquero's, especially where cylinder size is concerned.
People buy and recommend Ruger's because other people buy Ruger's. Years ago I bought a New Vaquero in 45 Colt for this very reason, everyone said "get a Ruger.". The stories regarding Ruger not being able to properly drill cylinder throats is quite well known and was true for me. If you don't believe it, just go to a Ruger forum and ask. Of course if you never seriously shoot revolvers or if you only shoot jacketed bullets, the size of the cylinder throats isn't super critical. Mine also had the tight spot in the barrel where it screws into the frame, had to lap that out. The bolt also popped way too early which scored the cylinder making it look like something made by Baikal. I found the revolver overall to be very Baikal-esque and got sick of working on it and sold it, ultimately replacing it with a Uberti Frisco in the same caliber. The Uberti absolutely shot circles around the NV and all I did was clean up the forcing cone and replace the bolt/trigger spring with a wire example. But, you asked about .357's.
Almost a dozen years ago I bought a pair of consecutively numbered Uberti Hombre's with which to delve into CAS. A few years ago I dug one of them out of the safe and started piddling with it. It didn't seem to matter what load I fed it, it just shot them with wonderful accuracy.
Hand-me-down generic .38 Special loads at 50 yds.-
Same load at 75 yds.-
A couple of bumming around the pasture loads at 75 yds.-
So I know all the Kewl Kids on the forums recommend Ruger's, but I know better.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, their own personal likes and dislikes.
I won't own an SA revolver that isn't a Ruger New model. Have had them, have no need or use for them now.
I've always felt the new model Ruger Blackhawk was a gun that Colt would have made, if they'd only known how....
My Dad never had an SA revolver because he didn't like the grip shape. He got Mom a Ruger Super Bearcat, because she liked it.
I grew up in the era of TV westerns but never had an emotional attachment for the Colt pattern SA guns. For me, the Ruger new model is the best, and most practical.
I had a New Vaquero, didn't really use it, didn't much like it, not because of any flaw in the gun, but simply because 30+ years of using Blackhawks and (original) Vaqueros made the New Vaquero seem "small" to me. Entirely a personal matter.
Use what you like best. I like the Ruger and recommend them because of that.
I won't own an SA revolver that isn't a Ruger New model. Have had them, have no need or use for them now.
I've always felt the new model Ruger Blackhawk was a gun that Colt would have made, if they'd only known how....
My Dad never had an SA revolver because he didn't like the grip shape. He got Mom a Ruger Super Bearcat, because she liked it.
I grew up in the era of TV westerns but never had an emotional attachment for the Colt pattern SA guns. For me, the Ruger new model is the best, and most practical.
I had a New Vaquero, didn't really use it, didn't much like it, not because of any flaw in the gun, but simply because 30+ years of using Blackhawks and (original) Vaqueros made the New Vaquero seem "small" to me. Entirely a personal matter.
Use what you like best. I like the Ruger and recommend them because of that.