Psychedelic Bang
New member
I have a Smith Airweight.. There is a ton of recoil. I'm also not interested in tiny 357 magnums - you would have to be nuts imo
Ruger LCR---No Thanks!
- Thread starter Driftwood Johnson
- Start date
jackmoser65
New member
These guns aren't shot for fun. They're practiced and trained with because they may eventually get used in defense of your life. I can deal with a little discomfort for that purpose. They're lightweight to be easier to carry and less likely to get left behind. With that said if I couldn't spend an hour shooting standard pressure 38's out of one, I might check to see if my drawers had lace on them. 
Sorry but my chrony says otherwise. I don't consider 125 grain jacketed hollowpoints at over 1400ft/sec to be "little or nothing" over 38 special.
2damnold4this
New member
Having a grip that fits my hand properly helps me quite a bit when shooting the Airweights and Airlights. It's not a big deal to shoot the Speer 38+p 135 grain for short barrel revolvers in my 342 with grips that fit my hand but it's a chore to shoot standard loads with the wrong grips.
I have shot .357 loads in my heavier K6s and they aren't painful with the factory grips but it does take longer for follow up shots with the hotter rounds. Speer's mild .357 135 grain load is hotter than a 38+p but is milder than many .357 loads. I find that load to be controllable in the Kimber and can shoot it almost as quickly as I can the .38+p load.
I have shot .357 loads in my heavier K6s and they aren't painful with the factory grips but it does take longer for follow up shots with the hotter rounds. Speer's mild .357 135 grain load is hotter than a 38+p but is milder than many .357 loads. I find that load to be controllable in the Kimber and can shoot it almost as quickly as I can the .38+p load.
Clarifications:
I too would consider 125gr JHP @ over 1400 fps with .357 Magnum to not be a "little or nothing" sort of gain over .38 Special ballistics, but we're talking about little lightweight guns with sub-two inch barrels on this thread, not 4" or longer barrels!
Doesn't happen, unless perhaps you're referring to some apocryphal handloads of your own manufacture?
The late Steve Camp did his own chronographing comparison of some .38 Special and .357 Magnum loads in "snubbies", and concluded that there was indeed a meaningful increase in velocity with .357 over .38 Special, but questioned the cost in felt recoil, controllability and increase wear in J-frame guns.
Hey, more power to ya!
(I'm less impressed by energy figures than momentum comparisons for handgun loads, but I won't be arguing over it.)
My own experience with this has been in shooting ALL then-available commercial premium JHP loads of .357 Magnum with bullet weights from 110gr to 158 gr (no 180gr!) in my S&W 340PDs, about a decade ago.
I had hoped to find a truly potent carry load in a lightest-possible weight package (since I'm not "recoil sensitive"), but I certainly value accuracy (that is, "nearness to the mark") and precision (that is, "the degree to which all shots go through the same hole") above all else in CCW handgun ballistic considerations.
Blast, flash, felt recoil and shot-to-shot recovery time with .357 loads were certainly all increased over .38 Special loads, but much more important to me, accuracy & precision were notably better with certain .38 Special loads (the single best proving to be Speer Gold Dot 135gr+P "short barrel" JHP) than with any of the .357 Magnum loads.
The trade-off of lessened accuracy-precision for the increase in velocity wasn't worth it for me.
YMMV, JMNSHO, etc.
I too would consider 125gr JHP @ over 1400 fps with .357 Magnum to not be a "little or nothing" sort of gain over .38 Special ballistics, but we're talking about little lightweight guns with sub-two inch barrels on this thread, not 4" or longer barrels!
Doesn't happen, unless perhaps you're referring to some apocryphal handloads of your own manufacture?
The late Steve Camp did his own chronographing comparison of some .38 Special and .357 Magnum loads in "snubbies", and concluded that there was indeed a meaningful increase in velocity with .357 over .38 Special, but questioned the cost in felt recoil, controllability and increase wear in J-frame guns.
Hey, more power to ya!
(I'm less impressed by energy figures than momentum comparisons for handgun loads, but I won't be arguing over it.)
My own experience with this has been in shooting ALL then-available commercial premium JHP loads of .357 Magnum with bullet weights from 110gr to 158 gr (no 180gr!) in my S&W 340PDs, about a decade ago.
I had hoped to find a truly potent carry load in a lightest-possible weight package (since I'm not "recoil sensitive"), but I certainly value accuracy (that is, "nearness to the mark") and precision (that is, "the degree to which all shots go through the same hole") above all else in CCW handgun ballistic considerations.
Blast, flash, felt recoil and shot-to-shot recovery time with .357 loads were certainly all increased over .38 Special loads, but much more important to me, accuracy & precision were notably better with certain .38 Special loads (the single best proving to be Speer Gold Dot 135gr+P "short barrel" JHP) than with any of the .357 Magnum loads.
The trade-off of lessened accuracy-precision for the increase in velocity wasn't worth it for me.
YMMV, JMNSHO, etc.
jackmoser65
New member
You really think I'm posting about six inch velocities? No. That was clocked out of a three inch J frame with published handloads.
It ain't pleasant but it is effective. People seem to want to trivialize the compromise in performance for comfort to make themselves feel better.
OldMarksman
Staff
Do you really think it wise to accept those disadvantages?
I carried a 642 at one time. I decided that the low capacity, and the slow rate of controlled fire caused by the recoil, were just not acceptable.
I was quite surprised to find that the Ruger SR9c that replaced it was essentially the same size and could be carried very comfortably indeed.
And it performed much, much better.
And should the need arise, it would be extremely beneficial to score multiple hits very, very quickly on an attacker moving quickly from a short distance.
jackmoser65
New member
Do you really think it wise to be so dependent on capacity?
Oh, I dunno.
Now in my seventh decade, and having practiced all-day, every-day CCW for nearly thirty years now, with full-size steel 1911s, Sig P220s, HK P7M8s and various other heavy guns, at various times, and never yet having needed to employ a "firearm response" to anybody or for anything, I find that the older I get, the less glad I am to tote around a heavy sidearm all day.
Yes, "tomorrow may be the day", and nobody can predict what will happen, but we all make choices.
Certainly, being armed is an appropriate choice.
I won't carry less than a 9mm or .38 Special sidearm, but since I endeavor to stay in "Condition Yellow", and "don't do dumb things, go dumb places or associate with dumb people" (as my mentor John Farnam likes to recommend), I don't feel too unready when sometimes carrying a J-frame revolver instead of my accustomed Glock 26 or lightweight Colt .45 Auto CCO, especially in hot weather.
I do carry reloads, even with a J-frame, which some might consider "wishful thinking", but that's my decision.
Jack, I believe you, but again, the OP was talking about a sub-two inch barrel "snubby" (yes, I know there's a three inch LCRx out there), and in any case, I'll personally load only premium factory loads in any sidearm I carry for CCW.
Maybe your .357 handloads are more accurate and precise in your 3" J-frame, in your hands, than was my experience with factory .357 ammo in my 1 7/8" barrel 340PDs, and if those handloads of yours have the velocities you prefer too, and are controllable for you, I say most sincerely, "more power to ya".
jackmoser65
New member
An inch isn't going to neuter the cartridge or magically make a low pressure cartridge equal to a high pressure cartridge. The 357 carries a significant velocity advantage across the board.
Recoil and accuracy are mutually exclusive. It's true that the 38 special is easier to shoot but that's a training issue.
Recoil and accuracy are mutually exclusive. It's true that the 38 special is easier to shoot but that's a training issue.
HighValleyRanch
New member
An then the results of the chronograph test of the Buffalo Bore .357 Outdoorsman heavy 180 grain out of the 1 7/8" Ruger .357 LCR.
1246 and 1250. And these are 180 grain, not 125 grain which would give higher velocities.
Not just energy figures, but actual fps as well.
I quote these figures, because it debunks the myth that because of shorter barrels, .357 shows no gains over hot .38 special +P.
Not because I would necessarily want that much energy in SD (except for 4 legged).
For you
Well I certainly stand corrected there.
That sounds incredible to me, for so heavy a bullet out of such a short barrel, though I see that Buffalo Bore's published velocity data for the 180gr load in question is 1302 fps out of a 3" J-frame .357, so out of a 1 7/8" barrel, velocity probably would be about 50 fps slower.
I'd suppose the heavier (steel framed) .357 Magnum LCR must be at least a bit intimidating to shoot with these loads, since my 3" barrel steel Model 60s definitely have "sharpish" felt recoil even with 125gr .357 Magnum commercial loads.