I chose a 6920 w/SAW reliability package, CompM4, LaRue BUIS / Aimpoint QD mount.
AR15 deficiencies
Which AR
...
AR15 deficiencies
Which AR
...
Rock River, Oplympic Or Colt
- Thread starter epr105
- Start date
ranger dave
New member
ar
hound dog what you shooting sub moa with cheep ammo
hound dog what you shooting sub moa with cheep ammo
everyone always leaves Armalite out.
Fine rifles. I just got an Armalite M15 carbine and I love it. I couldn't ask for more, and at a decent price. You can get a chrome-lined armalite carbine for around 900 after tax and all. Accurate (about 1 moa, hey, the barrel is chrome-lined) and reliable. I've only shot 200-300 rounds out of it, but it hasn't malfunctioned yet, except for a fte when the rim of the cheap round stripped off. Don't rule out an armalite. I plan on going to Iraq with mine when I join blackwater next year.
Fine rifles. I just got an Armalite M15 carbine and I love it. I couldn't ask for more, and at a decent price. You can get a chrome-lined armalite carbine for around 900 after tax and all. Accurate (about 1 moa, hey, the barrel is chrome-lined) and reliable. I've only shot 200-300 rounds out of it, but it hasn't malfunctioned yet, except for a fte when the rim of the cheap round stripped off. Don't rule out an armalite. I plan on going to Iraq with mine when I join blackwater next year.
I sell them all. My personal opinion (disregarding the stuff like LMT, POF, very nice but much $) In order: RRA, Bushmaster, DPMS, Armalite, and if one of those manufacturers doesn't have what that customer wants in their catalog, I'll build it to suit from parts. (I also like the Stag lefty guns) I don't really do much with Olympic. I don't like to deal with Colt. Their customer service sucks. We've had problem guns from Colt, with QC issues that they didn't want to address. And they cost more than a RRA or Bushmaster by a few hundred dollars.
Double Star
What no votes for DOUBLE STAR AR's?
I Own a Colt, DPMS and Double Star they all shoot great. My Double Star is the latest to the collection. Great gun and priced right. Seems like they usually get overlooked. Check out www.centerfiresystems.com for the different models.....
What no votes for DOUBLE STAR AR's?
I Own a Colt, DPMS and Double Star they all shoot great. My Double Star is the latest to the collection. Great gun and priced right. Seems like they usually get overlooked. Check out www.centerfiresystems.com for the different models.....
Mark, I'm still waiting for the shipment from Russian American. You're on the list with about 60 other people for those mags.
I don't know about the block in the trigger group, I haven't done a new colt in awhile. The only ones I have in right now are older models. My issue with Colt arises from their customer service. My business partner is a 45B at 19th SFG, and had 80 Colts out of spec. (barrels over torqued to compensate, came loose as soon as they were shot) These were unfired guns, but they had sat in a warehouse for awhile. When Colt was contacted they denyed there was a problem, and then when showed there was a problem, they didn't want to fix them.
I don't know about the block in the trigger group, I haven't done a new colt in awhile. The only ones I have in right now are older models. My issue with Colt arises from their customer service. My business partner is a 45B at 19th SFG, and had 80 Colts out of spec. (barrels over torqued to compensate, came loose as soon as they were shot) These were unfired guns, but they had sat in a warehouse for awhile. When Colt was contacted they denyed there was a problem, and then when showed there was a problem, they didn't want to fix them.
IMO it's because some people think that just paying more gets the best. I wouldn't rate Colt above a Bushmaster, DPMS, or a RRA for that matter. The quality looks identical, from what I've seen. Nothing wrong with a Colt but they're not superior to others. Their reputation might be though.
Optical Serenity
New member
Rock River Arms, hands down!
I've shot many different brands, and never have problems with Rock Rivers...they are very solidly built, with great parts.
I've shot many different brands, and never have problems with Rock Rivers...they are very solidly built, with great parts.
The reason my first preference is Colt is partly because of several years of experience with them that's been totally reliable aside from one incident where I jammed one with a bad reload (my own mistake, too much lube on the pad, too much lube on the case in the resizing die, partially collapsed shoulder I didn't pick up on before trying to chamber it) a long time ago. Also base my preference on gunsmith opinions. Colt seems to maintain the best overall quality in materials and construction & attention to specs.
I see a couple posters advancing other brands while saying theirs is "not 100% reliable" and "but not so reliable". No offense to them, but I want better & get it with Colt.
Other brand commentary briefly:
For the last few years before I retired I carried a heavy 16-inch Bushmaster upper on a Colt lower at work. My gunsmith warned me I'd be likely to have problems with the upper being out of spec based on his experiences with the company & its products. When he inspected it the first time to certify it for department use, he found it was in specs & was moderately surprised. In the qualifications I went through with it, never had a single problem. That said, there was another agency locally that gave up on several Bushmasters due to function problems, and I've heard of reliability issues from other sources. My brother-in-law (currently retired) noted during his tenure as firearms instructor at the Salt Lake City PD that several Bushmasters would work fine at first, then began to develop functional problems over time at training sessions. I'm also hearing of broken Bushmaster bolts on other sites. I've removed my Bushmaster upper & retired it. It may never develop reliability issues, but I'm not taking the chance. This is not saying that every Bushmaster will be or go bad, just that their ARs have something of a spotty rep for reliability.
Next best, in my opinion & others, is a DPMS gun. That company started out contracting mil-spec parts for the government, and their specs are still good & pretty consistent. I've used their left-handed AR before with no problems, I just bought one of their lowest-priced entry-level 16-inch ARs (but have not had time to shoot it yet). DPMS has one of the most extensive AR lines along with accessories & options in the business. One excellent feature about that company is that you can mix & match their uppers & lowers if you don't like a particular combination, buy parts to upgrade with, or essentially build your own custom gun, and everything is built to match up with everything else because it's all coming from the same source.
I tried one Rock River upper with their two-stage trigger in one of my Colt lowers, it developed a tendency to try to go full auto & the trigger pull wandered down to about a pound before I gave up. I'm not saying RRs are bad across the line, they do have a following.
Olympics have always been their own game on specs, machining, materials, and quality. I would not bet my life on one.
I've had no experience with ArmaLite ARs in .223, but have tried two different ArmaLite ARs in .30 caliber that flat would not feed reliably. I've not heard anything negative on their .223s, and I'd assume those would probably be good.
I've tried a high-end Les Baer Thunder Ranch Model, and would have bought it had I had the $2500 it cost. It was the best built AR in overall quality and function I've shot, but with the general sense I get here ("I don't wanna spend much."), I doubt that would be a consideration.
Any time somebody asks "What's the best?" the answers will vary widely. I don't tell anybody what's best, but I do have my own preferences based on my needs, experiences, and info from people inside the industry. My ARs are expected to defend my life if necessary. Colt is not perfect in either customer service or meeting the customer market, and every company puts out an occasional lemon, but in my mind my chances for consistent quality and reliability are better with Colt and DPMS. The materials will be better over all, the parts will be closer to mil-spec (where that applies), heat treatment will be more consistent, tolerances will generally be better, and so on. I don't own Colt ARs for the name, I own them for what they give me. Colt has its problems in other areas, but the M16/ARs they put out are still well done.
The new S&Ws will probably be pretty good, time will tell.
For range toys, it doesn't matter, but my ARs are not range toys.
Everybody has their preferences & reasoning, those are mine.
I see a couple posters advancing other brands while saying theirs is "not 100% reliable" and "but not so reliable". No offense to them, but I want better & get it with Colt.
Other brand commentary briefly:
For the last few years before I retired I carried a heavy 16-inch Bushmaster upper on a Colt lower at work. My gunsmith warned me I'd be likely to have problems with the upper being out of spec based on his experiences with the company & its products. When he inspected it the first time to certify it for department use, he found it was in specs & was moderately surprised. In the qualifications I went through with it, never had a single problem. That said, there was another agency locally that gave up on several Bushmasters due to function problems, and I've heard of reliability issues from other sources. My brother-in-law (currently retired) noted during his tenure as firearms instructor at the Salt Lake City PD that several Bushmasters would work fine at first, then began to develop functional problems over time at training sessions. I'm also hearing of broken Bushmaster bolts on other sites. I've removed my Bushmaster upper & retired it. It may never develop reliability issues, but I'm not taking the chance. This is not saying that every Bushmaster will be or go bad, just that their ARs have something of a spotty rep for reliability.
Next best, in my opinion & others, is a DPMS gun. That company started out contracting mil-spec parts for the government, and their specs are still good & pretty consistent. I've used their left-handed AR before with no problems, I just bought one of their lowest-priced entry-level 16-inch ARs (but have not had time to shoot it yet). DPMS has one of the most extensive AR lines along with accessories & options in the business. One excellent feature about that company is that you can mix & match their uppers & lowers if you don't like a particular combination, buy parts to upgrade with, or essentially build your own custom gun, and everything is built to match up with everything else because it's all coming from the same source.
I tried one Rock River upper with their two-stage trigger in one of my Colt lowers, it developed a tendency to try to go full auto & the trigger pull wandered down to about a pound before I gave up. I'm not saying RRs are bad across the line, they do have a following.
Olympics have always been their own game on specs, machining, materials, and quality. I would not bet my life on one.
I've had no experience with ArmaLite ARs in .223, but have tried two different ArmaLite ARs in .30 caliber that flat would not feed reliably. I've not heard anything negative on their .223s, and I'd assume those would probably be good.
I've tried a high-end Les Baer Thunder Ranch Model, and would have bought it had I had the $2500 it cost. It was the best built AR in overall quality and function I've shot, but with the general sense I get here ("I don't wanna spend much."), I doubt that would be a consideration.
Any time somebody asks "What's the best?" the answers will vary widely. I don't tell anybody what's best, but I do have my own preferences based on my needs, experiences, and info from people inside the industry. My ARs are expected to defend my life if necessary. Colt is not perfect in either customer service or meeting the customer market, and every company puts out an occasional lemon, but in my mind my chances for consistent quality and reliability are better with Colt and DPMS. The materials will be better over all, the parts will be closer to mil-spec (where that applies), heat treatment will be more consistent, tolerances will generally be better, and so on. I don't own Colt ARs for the name, I own them for what they give me. Colt has its problems in other areas, but the M16/ARs they put out are still well done.
The new S&Ws will probably be pretty good, time will tell.
For range toys, it doesn't matter, but my ARs are not range toys.
Everybody has their preferences & reasoning, those are mine.
Spend some time at ar15.com's troubleshooting board and absorb the problems out there. I'm not saying there won't be any problems with Colts, but check it out. If you want a range AR, or a safe queen, or a plinking AR, go for it - you don't need the Colt. If you will stake your life on your firearm then you need to decide what reliability is worth. Many will convince you that good enough is. It just may be too. Only you can decide.
And read these threads.
AR15 deficiencies
Which AR
...
And read these threads.
AR15 deficiencies
Which AR
...
I have or have had Colts, an Armalite, an Olympic Arms and a Bushmaster. The Colt and Bushmaster seem equivalent to me. The Armalite was a good rifle but not as well-made as the Colt/Bushy (had more machining marks on bolt carrier). The Olympic Arms rifle was not the quality of the others or as accurate.
At present I own a Bushmaster stainless service rifle config. and a modified Colt varmit rifle.
At present I own a Bushmaster stainless service rifle config. and a modified Colt varmit rifle.
hillmillenia
New member
from the source...
There are only a few factories that turn out these parts for all the "Brands" All are quite reputable. CMT comes to mind as a battle worthy let alone range worthy rifle. I understand they make parts for Colt, RRA and Stag. All of which are fine weapons. Military contract manufacturers are where they are because they maintain the quality and bid the price lower than the next guy.
There are only a few factories that turn out these parts for all the "Brands" All are quite reputable. CMT comes to mind as a battle worthy let alone range worthy rifle. I understand they make parts for Colt, RRA and Stag. All of which are fine weapons. Military contract manufacturers are where they are because they maintain the quality and bid the price lower than the next guy.
Lycanthrope
New member
Arfcom is skewed to the Colt in my opinion. I've had some custom AR's and compared them to the cheapest kit guns and found advantages to both.
I've run several Colts and while they are good rifles, you can have a superior custom for cheaper.
I've run several Colts and while they are good rifles, you can have a superior custom for cheaper.
The Olympic Arms rifle was not the quality of the others or as accurate.
I won't dispute that the Oly's are not quite equal in quality to RRA and Colt. Would even agree, based on personal experience, that Oly's can be a little finicky until they're broken in. But less accurate - unless you're talking about their cheapest plinker model I can't agree.
My Oly, which is the flat top with a 16" stainless free floated barrel will shoot sub MOA with most ammo. On a good day, with a load it likes, it's closer to .5 MOA. From posts I've seen, others have been getting similar results. In fact, I've always thought that Oly's have the reputation for being tack drivers (but as I said, a little finicky).
IMHO, if you want a range/fun/plinker gun, an Oly would be a great purchase. If you need a gun that you can stake your life on and runs 100% no matter what, you should probably look elsewhere. (But then if 100% foolproof reliability is your goal, I'd get an AK, or even an FAL, not an AR).
Of course, maybe you want to be an "early adopter" and get the new S&W
I won't dispute that the Oly's are not quite equal in quality to RRA and Colt. Would even agree, based on personal experience, that Oly's can be a little finicky until they're broken in. But less accurate - unless you're talking about their cheapest plinker model I can't agree.
My Oly, which is the flat top with a 16" stainless free floated barrel will shoot sub MOA with most ammo. On a good day, with a load it likes, it's closer to .5 MOA. From posts I've seen, others have been getting similar results. In fact, I've always thought that Oly's have the reputation for being tack drivers (but as I said, a little finicky).
IMHO, if you want a range/fun/plinker gun, an Oly would be a great purchase. If you need a gun that you can stake your life on and runs 100% no matter what, you should probably look elsewhere. (But then if 100% foolproof reliability is your goal, I'd get an AK, or even an FAL, not an AR).
Of course, maybe you want to be an "early adopter" and get the new S&W
Oly accuracy
I was only relating my experience. This was 1996 or so as I recall. I didn't shoot it or have it for very long. It was an Oly flat-top upper with a heavy 22 or 24 inch stainless barrel and float-tube. I intended to use it as a varmit rig on p-dogs. Didn't shoot any better than a standard barrel (just under 1 MOA with my best handloads). I traded it for a Colt and sent it to Bill Wylde who customized it with a scope block, 24" stainless Krieger barrel and other stuff. I would have sent him the Oly but Bill would only work on Colts at that time.
To be honest the Oly may have done better had I spent some time with it but I wanted a 'tac driver' and I knew Wylde built them. It does under 0.5 MOA consistently and often 0.3 MOA or better. As good as any bolt gun I have ever owned.
Seems most ARs with good barrels and float tubes shoot into the 0.5 MOA range these days. I probably spent more money than needed - the Krieger barrel alone was $500.
I was only relating my experience. This was 1996 or so as I recall. I didn't shoot it or have it for very long. It was an Oly flat-top upper with a heavy 22 or 24 inch stainless barrel and float-tube. I intended to use it as a varmit rig on p-dogs. Didn't shoot any better than a standard barrel (just under 1 MOA with my best handloads). I traded it for a Colt and sent it to Bill Wylde who customized it with a scope block, 24" stainless Krieger barrel and other stuff. I would have sent him the Oly but Bill would only work on Colts at that time.
To be honest the Oly may have done better had I spent some time with it but I wanted a 'tac driver' and I knew Wylde built them. It does under 0.5 MOA consistently and often 0.3 MOA or better. As good as any bolt gun I have ever owned.
Seems most ARs with good barrels and float tubes shoot into the 0.5 MOA range these days. I probably spent more money than needed - the Krieger barrel alone was $500.
HectikMind7
New member
Bushmaster of Rock River.
Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war!!!!
Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war!!!!