Among the comp shooters, the progressive MECs are very popular. The reloaders without MECs typically have an upper scale loader like a PW. Comp shooters are of two varieties. Guys, like Jim and me, shoot all four gauges and have 4 MECS. Trap shooters, who shoot only 12-ga, and a lot of it, are the ones who tend to go with the high end loaders.
Reloading Shotgun Shells for Dummies
- Thread starter TheKlawMan
- Start date
TheKlawMan
Moderator
Cost of Shells
We aren't talking about a dime a shell or $2.50 a box savings. If I thought it wise to shoot up the 1 oz stuff from WalMart I would be tickled, but I think it my 63 year old body will thank me if I swith to 7/8 oz loads and as near as I can see in they are pretty expensive near me. Online prices are good but the cost of shipping kills that. The costs of loading may be less then some think. I may be able to get a used MEC Jr for $50 or $60. Then it is possible that some other member of my family go out shooting once and a while. I figure the loader, Lyman book, needed accessories (scale, bushings, extra shot bar) will be paid for in three months or less.
We aren't talking about a dime a shell or $2.50 a box savings. If I thought it wise to shoot up the 1 oz stuff from WalMart I would be tickled, but I think it my 63 year old body will thank me if I swith to 7/8 oz loads and as near as I can see in they are pretty expensive near me. Online prices are good but the cost of shipping kills that. The costs of loading may be less then some think. I may be able to get a used MEC Jr for $50 or $60. Then it is possible that some other member of my family go out shooting once and a while. I figure the loader, Lyman book, needed accessories (scale, bushings, extra shot bar) will be paid for in three months or less.
TheKlawMan
Moderator
Zippy and BigJim. Should there be a need for a better loader down the road, I can always sell the MEC Jr I am trying to get used for nearly what I am trying to pay for one, which is not to say if I saw a deal on someting a bit more than I need I would not take it. Last week's local gun show was rained out on Sunday.
Edward429451
Moderator
If you want to load your own shotgun shells you do not need a justification. Many people are being short sighted when they say oh SG shells are so cheap so you have no need. Pfft! They could pass some crap legislation that would increase the price and deny availability to you almost overnight. Where would you be then?
Get a MEC. I have the grabber and it is a sweet machine. When I pass my shotguns down to the kids, they get a press and stuff too to ensure they will be able to shoot. Who cares how cheap they are...they wont stay cheap forever.
Get a MEC. I have the grabber and it is a sweet machine. When I pass my shotguns down to the kids, they get a press and stuff too to ensure they will be able to shoot. Who cares how cheap they are...they wont stay cheap forever.
Sounds like a plan man ....
I have the one used Grabber ....and I keep looking for a 2nd one ...or one in 20ga to pickup ( I'm sorry I gave the one I had away in 20ga a few yrs ago ) / and then pass them on to each of the boys - when I give them a couple of shotguns in a few years.
They can have my hydraulics ...when I'm too old / or too blind to shoot ....
View attachment 66976
This is how I have the reloading area of my shop setup ....the blue press is a Dillon 650 for metallic / then there are 4 Mecs - 2 always on the loading table above my pump / and 2 standing by ....
It works real well for me ...
I have the one used Grabber ....and I keep looking for a 2nd one ...or one in 20ga to pickup ( I'm sorry I gave the one I had away in 20ga a few yrs ago ) / and then pass them on to each of the boys - when I give them a couple of shotguns in a few years.
They can have my hydraulics ...when I'm too old / or too blind to shoot ....
View attachment 66976
This is how I have the reloading area of my shop setup ....the blue press is a Dillon 650 for metallic / then there are 4 Mecs - 2 always on the loading table above my pump / and 2 standing by ....
It works real well for me ...
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oneounceload
Moderator
Step ups from the MEC include, in the opinion of many, the RCBS Grand, The PW models and at the top of the mountain, the Spolar. When you add in a hydraulic or electric drive to a PW or Spolar, the machine starts to get real pricey.....that's OK if you are shooting the volume to offset the cost. I have had MEC 9000's - not bad machines once you get it tweaked.........still have some Jr's. Right now I am using the Grand and it does a nice job - and any and all replacement parts come free from Oroville - forever.
TheKlawMan
Moderator
BigJim. That is one organized garage. Besides the shotgun, I am trying to pursue antother pastime I have been getting into and you are obviously well into; wood working. It is nice to see that the reloading equipment takes up very little space.
While I'm thinking about it ....we all have machines we prefer over others ....but one of the biggest issues ....
You need to decide on the hull that you want to reload ....not all 12ga 2 3/4" hulls are the same ...in fact they can be way different / which isn't logical. But some of them are a little longer, some are tapered, some have brass cups, some are steel, etc ....
In 12ga reloads ....
a. 10 Years ago 90% of us reloaded Win AA's exclusively ... But today, Win has the HS hulls..which I believe require a different wad / some of the promo loads like you might buy at WalMart,etc ...are a little different, crimp different..and may be a different quality of plastic in the hull.... So many of us / have given up on Win AA hulls ....
b. Remington has an STS hull (dark green) and a Nitro hull ( gold ) that are very durable / really strong hulls - and will almost reload forever. I have many with well over 20 reloads on one hull. Remington also has a black hull - called a "Game Load" ....and the plastic is a little thinner and more brittle than the Rem STS or Rem Nitro hulls. But all 3 of the Rem hulls are easy to reload - and take the same recipe. The Rem Game Loads will only reload 4 or 5 times before they seem to crack.
Today, based on what I see - 90% of us reload Rem STS hulls....
c. There are other hulls out there - Federal - which are fine .... / Fiocchi, Rio, Estate, etc which are all pretty much junk in my opinion ...
But you can't mix and match hulls - some WIN AA's, some STS's, some Rio's etc ..... / you can't necessarily mix and match wads or primers either . On shotshells - you have to follow the published recipe to the letter - and while some substitutions of wads may be allowed in the tables ...you can't mix and match everything...
So what I'm saying is some of the promo shells you're buying - may be junk / and not really a good option for reloading. The best hull to use, in my opinion is the REM STS hull in a 12ga. Some clubs sell once fired hulls for about $4 per 100 .../ or you might be able to beg a few hundred off someone ...( many of us that reload / have 20gallon garbage cans full of hulls ...) ...
Personally, I like Hodgdon Clays powder, Win AA 12SL wad because I load 1 oz of shot ( and I substitue a Green Duster brand wad for it ) - and that substitution is in the Hodgdon book, and Win 209 primers .....but part of the reason I use that mix ....is my club stocks all those components in case lots .... ( and I load 1 oz of 8's 99% of the time in my 12ga loads ).
The reason I happened to think of this - is it was a topic at my club yesterday ...when we found a guy picking hulls out of the garbage and he was mixing and matching all kinds of hulls... and he had some shells that were "bloopers" and some "misfires" ....so we tried to educate him ...and he had no clue ( and he can't read, can't follow directions, and hasn't cleaned his gun in over a year ....) .... Not saying you would be as foolish as he is ....but it isn't logical that all 12ga hulls are not created equal either ...since all 2 3/4" 12 ga shells will fit in a gun chambered for 2 3/4" shells ...you might think they had a mfg convention / where they were all the same ..but they aren't !!
You need to decide on the hull that you want to reload ....not all 12ga 2 3/4" hulls are the same ...in fact they can be way different / which isn't logical. But some of them are a little longer, some are tapered, some have brass cups, some are steel, etc ....
In 12ga reloads ....
a. 10 Years ago 90% of us reloaded Win AA's exclusively ... But today, Win has the HS hulls..which I believe require a different wad / some of the promo loads like you might buy at WalMart,etc ...are a little different, crimp different..and may be a different quality of plastic in the hull.... So many of us / have given up on Win AA hulls ....
b. Remington has an STS hull (dark green) and a Nitro hull ( gold ) that are very durable / really strong hulls - and will almost reload forever. I have many with well over 20 reloads on one hull. Remington also has a black hull - called a "Game Load" ....and the plastic is a little thinner and more brittle than the Rem STS or Rem Nitro hulls. But all 3 of the Rem hulls are easy to reload - and take the same recipe. The Rem Game Loads will only reload 4 or 5 times before they seem to crack.
Today, based on what I see - 90% of us reload Rem STS hulls....
c. There are other hulls out there - Federal - which are fine .... / Fiocchi, Rio, Estate, etc which are all pretty much junk in my opinion ...
But you can't mix and match hulls - some WIN AA's, some STS's, some Rio's etc ..... / you can't necessarily mix and match wads or primers either . On shotshells - you have to follow the published recipe to the letter - and while some substitutions of wads may be allowed in the tables ...you can't mix and match everything...
So what I'm saying is some of the promo shells you're buying - may be junk / and not really a good option for reloading. The best hull to use, in my opinion is the REM STS hull in a 12ga. Some clubs sell once fired hulls for about $4 per 100 .../ or you might be able to beg a few hundred off someone ...( many of us that reload / have 20gallon garbage cans full of hulls ...) ...
Personally, I like Hodgdon Clays powder, Win AA 12SL wad because I load 1 oz of shot ( and I substitue a Green Duster brand wad for it ) - and that substitution is in the Hodgdon book, and Win 209 primers .....but part of the reason I use that mix ....is my club stocks all those components in case lots .... ( and I load 1 oz of 8's 99% of the time in my 12ga loads ).
The reason I happened to think of this - is it was a topic at my club yesterday ...when we found a guy picking hulls out of the garbage and he was mixing and matching all kinds of hulls... and he had some shells that were "bloopers" and some "misfires" ....so we tried to educate him ...and he had no clue ( and he can't read, can't follow directions, and hasn't cleaned his gun in over a year ....) .... Not saying you would be as foolish as he is ....but it isn't logical that all 12ga hulls are not created equal either ...since all 2 3/4" 12 ga shells will fit in a gun chambered for 2 3/4" shells ...you might think they had a mfg convention / where they were all the same ..but they aren't !!
oneounceload
Moderator
To add my favorite to Jim's Remington mentions-the Gun Club, frequently put on sale by Dick's and other big-box chains - while a steel base hull, they are as reloadable as the STS and crimp real well
See, even though we're friends - we can occasionally agree on something
( but the gun clubs crack after 4 or 5 loads / unless you load them real light --- like OneOunce does ) .... Although, one thing to help a hull last / and run thru the press better ....is bring them in out of the cold ...and let them warm up overnite before you run them thru the press .... ( or you could even run them thru the clothes dryer --- for a few minutes ---- if you don't get caught ...) or so a single buddy of mine keeps saying ....( I don't have the guts to do it at home ) ....and he won't either when he gets married later this year, trust me .... she'll kill him ...
( but the gun clubs crack after 4 or 5 loads / unless you load them real light --- like OneOunce does ) .... Although, one thing to help a hull last / and run thru the press better ....is bring them in out of the cold ...and let them warm up overnite before you run them thru the press .... ( or you could even run them thru the clothes dryer --- for a few minutes ---- if you don't get caught ...)
or so a single buddy of mine keeps saying ....( I don't have the guts to do it at home ) ....and he won't either when he gets married later this year, trust me .... she'll kill him ...I don't shoot trap or skeet or dove, and don't need a lot of shells. So, I just load a few shells by hand as I need them or as the spirit moves me to. I load some vintage smokeless loads in paper hulls that I roll crimp, and I do some blackpowder loading (it's really a black powder substitute) in brass shells. I've found loading them as I need them this way to be inexpensive, uncomplicated and its the way everybody used to do it. It also really adds something to the enjoyment and anticipation of going hunting or shooting.
I already had a Remington Model 11 12 Ga. autoloader and a 100 year old Forehand Arms single barrel 12 Ga. when I started doing this. I also owned a rubber hammer, and a Black and Decker workmate to use as a work bench, and a 12 Guage shotgun cleaning kit.
I bought:
an antique 12 Ga. roll crimper on e-bay; about $18, incl. shipping.
100 primed Cheddite hulls $16.95 + shipping from BPI
10 CNC lathed brass shells from RMC (unprimed) $60-ish
1 lb. of Alliant Red Dot Powder (smokeless) can't recall but about $15
1 lb. of Triple Seven Powder (black powder substitute) cant't recall; say $15
With the exception of shot, which can be expensive in large quantities, the rest of the stuff I bought was a few bucks each. Finding small quantities of shot was the most difficult thing I ran into. (Although recently, I was practically given about 5 lbs. of #7 1/2 shot and an equal quantity of 00 buckshot by a gunsmith who was going out of business.)
100 Winchester primers
a bag of fiber wads
a bag of nitro cards and a bag of overshot cards.
a hand dipper adjustible in oz/drams; it's handle doubles as a 12 ga. tamper
a small funnel
a tube of Duco Cement to seal the ends of my brass shells.
a 12 guage sized dowel
I also bought a pricy set of brass priming, and depriming tools from RMC because I think they're cool, but I could have probably have gotten by with a block of hardwood, a socket from a socket wrench set, and a Torx screwdriver for depriming.
Works for me.
I already had a Remington Model 11 12 Ga. autoloader and a 100 year old Forehand Arms single barrel 12 Ga. when I started doing this. I also owned a rubber hammer, and a Black and Decker workmate to use as a work bench, and a 12 Guage shotgun cleaning kit.
I bought:
an antique 12 Ga. roll crimper on e-bay; about $18, incl. shipping.
100 primed Cheddite hulls $16.95 + shipping from BPI
10 CNC lathed brass shells from RMC (unprimed) $60-ish
1 lb. of Alliant Red Dot Powder (smokeless) can't recall but about $15
1 lb. of Triple Seven Powder (black powder substitute) cant't recall; say $15
With the exception of shot, which can be expensive in large quantities, the rest of the stuff I bought was a few bucks each. Finding small quantities of shot was the most difficult thing I ran into. (Although recently, I was practically given about 5 lbs. of #7 1/2 shot and an equal quantity of 00 buckshot by a gunsmith who was going out of business.)
100 Winchester primers
a bag of fiber wads
a bag of nitro cards and a bag of overshot cards.
a hand dipper adjustible in oz/drams; it's handle doubles as a 12 ga. tamper
a small funnel
a tube of Duco Cement to seal the ends of my brass shells.
a 12 guage sized dowel
I also bought a pricy set of brass priming, and depriming tools from RMC because I think they're cool, but I could have probably have gotten by with a block of hardwood, a socket from a socket wrench set, and a Torx screwdriver for depriming.
Works for me.
Progressives are not really machines beginners should start with. They can be very finicky, you really have to pay attention to them. The MEC jr. will be the perfect machine to learn on, then like you said, upgrade later. You'll get really good at loading with the jr. and you probably be watching T.V. as you are doing it. And until you start shooting a S@#$ load, it will will serve you well.
rottieman33
New member
did this all with a Mec Jr. 2156 rounds.
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oneounceload
Moderator
You must have had a good workout!
rottieman33
New member
oneounceload let me put it this way i am single now girlfriend go so ****** at me cause i wasn't spending any time with her. Doing all that work wasn't bad cause with my work i use my upper body alot. but i do want to get a progressive press now just picked up a Saiga 12 and think my rounds will go fast now.
In the early 70's I had only two shotguns: Skeet W-101's in 12 and .410. My neighbor, who was in the process of clearing out for a move, came to my door with two cartons. One had a picture of a MEC 600 Jr and the other box was much larger. I recognized the MEC box because I'd been reloading with a 12-ga 650 for several years. The larger box had well over 4,000 once fired Fed paper .410 hulls. My neighbor proposed giving me the hulls if I would buy the loader for $35. With the deal done, I got some .410 powder and 5,000 ea of primers, over-powder and filler wads. After quite a few evenings working the 600 Jr. I had something in the neighborhood of 175 boxes of .410s -- quite an impressive sight. I thought I would be shooting these little guys for some time to come. Surprise, surprise, it seemed like no time at all before they were gone. Rottiieman33, let's see if your experience is the same.
Several years later, when I was shooting the .410 more seriously, I got a MEC Grabber in .410 and sold the 600 Jr for $35.
Several years later, when I was shooting the .410 more seriously, I got a MEC Grabber in .410 and sold the 600 Jr for $35.
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Impressive pile of boxes my man ....
For that kind of volume ---- look at the 9000-GN ( its manually operated / but progressive and auto index.)
The 9000-HN is the hydraulic version / but the downside to this model is you need a permanent place to put the press / with the motor and pump that stays on the floor - and you operate it with a foot pedal.
Both of the 9000's are very good machines / they'll both do 100 boxes in about 5 hours.
For that kind of volume ---- look at the 9000-GN ( its manually operated / but progressive and auto index.)
The 9000-HN is the hydraulic version / but the downside to this model is you need a permanent place to put the press / with the motor and pump that stays on the floor - and you operate it with a foot pedal.
Both of the 9000's are very good machines / they'll both do 100 boxes in about 5 hours.