Reloading Liability for Friends and Family

[akinswi]

My Co-worker recently brought me some of his grand daughters once fired .308 cases.

He wants me to reload them. I never load ammo for other people, occasionally I will let some friends shoot my reloaded 9mm ammo while im with them.

Is there like a release form I can have them sign to keep me from being liable in the case there was something catastrophic to happen

thanks

 

[Recycled bullet]

Maybe if you can tell him that if he owns all the necessary equipment and training manuals that are required for that specific hand loading experiment then you can teach him how to use it. He can load them himself -and be responsible for himself.

 

[Nick_C_S]

Is there like a release form . . .

You'd need a lawyer to do that properly. And it seems a bit impersonal to me.

I like the idea of having him do it himself, with your equipment, or however that would work out. Point is, he'd be the loader, not you.

During times of shortage, I've had folks (range friends, if you will) ask to buy ammo from me. I would just tell them "on advice of my lawyer, I can not do that, sorry." It has always worked and the conversation ends on friendly terms. Spoiler alert: I don't have a lawyer.

 

[Shotgun Slim]

When I last checked it was illegal to load for others unless you had a federal license to manufacture ammunition. That is a rule that is very much ignored. Your concern should be the enormous liability,that you probably cannot escape,in the event something goes badly. Imagine that you make a once in a lifetime error,or imagine that this person has had a mud dauber clog their barrel. When the Kaboom comes and fingers and eyes are damaged,this friendly coworker will become the person who is suing you for a bazillion dollars. Teach them to reload. You'll be doing them and yourself a favor.

 

[akinswi]

When I last checked it was illegal to load for others unless you had a federal license to manufacture ammunition. That is a rule that is very much ignored. Your concern should be the enormous liability,that you probably cannot escape,in the event something goes badly. Imagine that you make a once in a lifetime error,or imagine that this person has had a mud dauber clog their barrel. When the Kaboom comes and fingers and eyes are damaged,this friendly coworker will become the person who is suing you for a bazillion dollars. Teach them to reload. You'll be doing them and yourself a favor.

I thought it was only illegal too sell it for profit. Not just to manufacture it for someone at no profit. But alas I could be very wrong.

 

[tangolima]

Maybe if you can tell him that if he owns all the necessary equipment and training manuals that are required for that specific hand loading experiment then you can teach him how to use it. He can load them himself -and be responsible for himself.

That's what I did for my coworker. I loaded him the first 50 rounds light. I shot those with him. Then I got him started to load his own. He is the first and only one whom I mentored to handload, although I get requests from time to time. I know he would take this dead serious. I saw certain "fear" in his eyes.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[RKG]

You'd need a lawyer to do that properly. And it seems a bit impersonal to me.

I like the idea of having him do it himself, with your equipment, or however that would work out. Point is, he'd be the loader, not you.

During times of shortage, I've had folks (range friends, if you will) ask to buy ammo from me. I would just tell them "on advice of my lawyer, I can not do that, sorry." It has always worked and the conversation ends on friendly terms. Spoiler alert: I don't have a lawyer.

Selling one's reloads, versus giving them away, can raise legal issues under local state law. I tell folks that I'm not allowed to do that.

 

[FrankenMauser]

I thought it was only illegal too sell it for profit. Not just to manufacture it for someone at no profit. But alas I could be very wrong.

It isn't that simple.

Bottom line, if you don't have the time or desire to dig into the details about how much the ATF will want to shoot your dog: Don't reload for other people.

Bottom line, if you're worried about liability: Don't reload for other people.

 

[mehavey]

The key ATF GetOutOfJailFree clause is "...for personal use."
The OP likely does not want to test the definition limits there -- especially if an incident occurs.


BTW: Does anyone have any actual legal incidents/finding that address "give-away" reloading?

 

[rc]

Let people shoot your reloads in your gun if you like, but don't risk giving someone reloads to shoot in their gun. It's just not worth it and if they don't want to spend the time reloading themselves, why should you do it for them?

 

[Wag]

Nope. Just don't. I don't even let other people shoot my reloads in my guns. If something goes bad, it's always going to be on me.

--Wag--

 

[WmMunny]

Invite grandpa, granddaughter and her BF over for a pizza and beer college football Saturday afternoon; buy his granddaughter a streaming music subscription; give her an LGS gift card--- but whatever you do, DON'T reload any ammo for her...

 

[reynolds357]

I don't have many friends. I have a lot of aquaintencrs, but only a few friends. I would not need a liability release for a friend.

 

[Unclenick]

That's a good way to sort it.

 

[FrankenMauser]

You have to trust a person that will shoot your reloads, as much as you need to trust someone if you're going to shoot their reloads.
Trust is earned.

It isn't only about risk of load failure. It is also about the personality of the persons involved.

I can count on less than five fingers the number of people whose reloads I trust and will shoot without question - in their firearms or mine. And one of those guys blew up a Ruger M77 Hawkeye in front of me -- which is one of the reasons why I trust him (and another witness) more than others now.

Not too many people trust my reloads. But I understand. I color outside the box far more often than the average person. Wildcats, weird combinations, and sketchy old guns are the norm. When someone doesn't even understand the cartridge name, I can't blame them for getting turned off by, "I had to improvise and adjust based on data for [a different cartridge] from Barnes and Berger," or, "all original data was obsolete by 1893, so we have to use A, B, or C now, while maintaining pressure below 26.5k psi."

That being said, there are a few people that trust me without question, so long as they can see me shoot "it" first.
Not long ago, I test fired a long-abused and abandoned Martini-Henry (in .577/450) for the first time. After seeing that I did not die, the person that I was with fired the second round, while fully aware of what it was. A round using 30+ year old brass of unknown history, bullets that he cast but I paper-patched, and a full charge of my home-made black powder sitting under a stack of leather wads.

 

[mehavey]

I would not need a liability release for a friend....

But have, perchance, you got a signed release from his wife ?
Or his children ?

...or anyone else who the court might find has standing
should your friend be injured ?

Just a thought, but something to think about.

 

[Shadow9mm]

I have on occasion helped a co-worker. I sold him some powder, primers, bullets, brass. Had him come over. Gave him a quick primer on reloading, helped him set up my progressive press and showed him how to use it, and he ran off 100rnds of 38spl.

 

[44 AMP]

I'm not sure exactly where the legalities shake out today, but at one time (long, long ago in a galaxy not far away) if you provided the components, and assembled them into ammunition, you were manufacturing ammunition. Also back then, if they provided the components and you assembled them, arguably, you were not manufacturing ammunition, you were "providing a service".
And, if they provided the components and loaded them on your equipment, you were just loaning a friend some tools.

I have loaded for friends in the past, but ONLY when they gave me the gun the ammo was for. Won't do it today, I don't have those friends anymore.

 

[stagpanther]

I let my friends test my reloads--if the bang isn't followed by a scream I figure it's good to go.

JK!

 

[rclark]

I see nothing wrong with loading for others 'occasionally' that you know well. I've done it for my dad and an uncle for example. All they 'pay' me for is the cost of the materials used (normally they supply the bullets and cases to be reloaded). No biggie as this isn't rocket science (science is all done, you just have to be able to read a reloading manual). No need to make a mountain out of a mole hill. And we aren't talking red-line reloads either. Just light to medium revolver loads. They are happy, I am happy to do that for them once in awhile. i think the last time was about 5 years ago now. My advise is use common sense and whatever you are comfortable with. Should be able to just say NO if you don't want to do it.