Recommended 9mm Loads With CFE Pistol? Blackened Cases?

MP-44

New member
I tried some of my 9mm handloads using CFE Pistol powder. The fired cases were blackened. The loads were 5.1gr & 5.3gr, using a 124gr FMJ. OAL was 1.15. The way hotter factory Winchester NATO Q4318, came out shiny. A guess to the cause?


Recommended loads using the 124gr FMJ and the CFE powder?


TIA
 
Your bullet clears the case mouth when there isn't enough pressure to expand the case against the chamber hard enough to seal off reverse gas flow back toward the breech.
 

akinswi

New member
Powder charge seems right, you may need to crimp them a bit more to give time for pressure to build.

Usually when I had sooty cases I either increased charge or crimped more, 9mm is a tapered case so shouldnt be picky, you could try seating them a tad bit deeper.

But I bet some crimping may help
 

Ike Clanton

New member
I use CFE-P in 45 colt and 45 ACP. I experience the same thing but more pronounced in the 45 colt. All rounds have a medium crimp
 

Recycled bullet

New member
Are the loadings accurate and function the pistol correctly? Is there enough carbon deposit build up that it impedes proper feeding?

I have a load with Winchester Auto comp that cycles my guns and is accurate. I developed the powder charge and seating depth with powder coated hollow points loaded into Federal and Speer brass and when I recently switched to the same load in Remington Peters brass I got sooty case mouths.

I just got done cleaning the guns it didn't take any longer than it normally does. The fired brass is unattractive but does that really matter... since I'm going to be wet tumbling with stainless steel pins before I reload it anyway?
 

MP-44

New member
The gun is a brand new HK USP Expert.

If the blackened cases are only a cosmetic issue, and not an indication of something more serious, I'll just go on with the loadings I was using, and try some of the suggestions from posts above.
 

Recycled bullet

New member
Generally if it is a black carbon residue and can be easily wiped off with your fingertip or a cotton rag then it is due to low pressure. I don't know the charge range for CFE pistol however I do know that your overall length is long for 9x19 and that should lower the pressure generated.

I'm loading auto Comp at 4.3 grains with coal of 1.08 so it's pretty short.

It's a cosmetic issue as long as it is not scorching the brass. I had brass scorching with hodgdon tite group when I was first starting out reloading 9 mm. Those were pretty warm loads following book recommendations.
For the pistol loading I prefer the slower of the appropriate powders, I feel it generates better results on target with my home made bullets and I like how it feels in my hands, and perhaps provides a larger safety window if the cartridge telescopes or experiences set-back.



If you are able to upload a picture then we can see what you're looking at.
 

MP-44

New member
Odd, when I picked them up at the range Friday, the reloads were very black. The Win. were how they look in the pic below

The reloads were once fired brass that I purchased from Precision Delta

Reload on the left, Q4318 on the right

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Recycled bullet

New member
Looks like a
2a4a395ff459bbea6b8c38c30f5d6e8c.jpg
cosmetic issue to me.

I was just reading some of hodgdons reloading Data and comparing between auto comp and CFE pistol it seems they're similar with autocomp being slightly faster.
 

MP-44

New member
Looks like a
2a4a395ff459bbea6b8c38c30f5d6e8c.jpg
cosmetic issue to me.

I was just reading some of hodgdons reloading Data and comparing between auto comp and CFE pistol it seems they're similar with autocomp being slightly faster.
The entire case was black when I picked them up and dumped them into a bag. Today is the first time I looked at them since.
 
It rubbed off, the same as the smoke from a candle would do.

BTW, for future reference, please try to hold the width of photos down to about 1024 pixels so they don't go off people's screens. Just make a copy and put it through one of the numerous free resizing apps online if you don't have one already.

We also prefer the board be used to host the file so it can't disappear unexpectedly, as happened back when Photobucket decided to change from a free to a subscription model and left a lot of threads without images. You host here by clicking on the Go Advanced button under the quick composition window. This takes you to the advanced composition page. There, scroll down to a button named Manage Attachments. Click on it to get a window with three Browse buttons in it. Use one of those to browse to your image location and then click on the Upload button to upload it. Right-click on the resulting link that shows up in blue under the browse area and copy it. Then go back to your composition and click on the picture icon and paste the link into it, or else use the image tags ([IMG]URL here[/IMG]) to put it into your composition body.

I've gone ahead and taken those steps for you in this post, assuming it's not familiar to you.

Thanks.
 

MP-44

New member
I tried rubbing it off with my thumb when I picked them up and it didn't come off, didn't even leave a mark on my thumb.
 
Just don't let the diameter at the mouth get below 0.373". SAAMI spec is 0.3730"-0.3800" at the mouth. The minimum diameter is to ensure the mouth stops on the shoulder at the end of the case portion of the chamber. Too narrow can slip into the throat, trapping the mouth and preventing proper bullet release, which can raise pressure significantly.

Coloring is usually due to a lack of pressure inflating the case hard enough against the chamber to make a seal. As you said in the first post, the NATO loads were way hotter. However, your loads look to be up to 0.2 grains over Hodgdon's maximum for a non-+P load. So I am wondering if maybe you are seeing something caused by the anti-fouling additive used in the CFE powders. It is famous for increasing soot in bores. I don't know if that soot is harder to rub off than non-CFE powders make or not. But if it is sooty enough, it's not impossible that the case is being blackened by expanding to contact soot left in the chamber by the last shot.

Check to see if the first case ejected from a cleaned barrel is blackened or not. If not, then the idea of picking up soot left by lingering smoke and pressure during ejection seems favorable. But if the first case is black, too, then gas is getting back over it before a good seal is established, and that's just a reflection of how fast the powder builds pressure. You could try working the load up over again from about 4.7 grains using magnum primers to see if those get the pressure to build any faster.

A second factor is that the NATO loads are made with the case as-manufactured, which includes a taper outward going back toward the head. When you resize with a die that uses a carbide ring, the ring is just one diameter, so it makes the case straight and thus narrower near the head than a new factory case or one resized in a steel die is. This is why you often can make out the location of the base of the bullet in a reload by looking for the slight bulge around the brass where the bullet stops. But factory ammo doesn't show that bulge due to the taper widening the brass outward at the bullet base.

I edited your photo here to show the side-by-side. You can see the blackening stops where the carbide sizing ring stopped going any further down. That's the part that expands outward during firing.

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Metal god

New member
I use CFE pistol a bunch, doesn’t mater what cartridge or components I get sooty cases . I absolutely hated that when I first started loading for hand guns but learned to live with it . IMHO its either slower then advertised or harder to ignite then others . Want to avoid sooty cases , use a faster powder is pretty much the easy fix rather then a never ending component adjusting deep dive .
 
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