REAL gun show annoyances

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Gunplummer

New member
Ever go to a show carrying a gun and had some goofball follow you after you turned down his offer on it? I call them "Leeches". The guys that hang around out side the doors and do "Dealing" with out the license. Twice I had guys follow and keep making offers on a gun I had bought at the show!
I was at a show down towards Philly and saw this: A couple guys standing outside the door with multiple guns on their shoulder. What looked like a representative for the show was asking them to come inside. I heard him say they would even give them a free table. They just did not want them standing outside the doors. I continued going in, but the guys were arguing.
What do you think about that?
 
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HiBC

New member
The shows in Colorado that I see:
Signs clearly state parking areas are patrolled and video'd.All sales even if initiated outside,must go through FFL/4473/NICS check.
Tables for this service are inside.
Those conducting business outside get busted.
 
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jmr40

New member
I've never intentionally tried to sell or purchase in the parking lot. But have made a deal a few times before I actually got inside. Perfectly legal here.
 
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Tony Z

New member
I believe I posted this before in a different thread months ago, but here goes: several years ago, at a show in Monroeville, PA, a guy comes up to me trying to sell me a couple of small pistols, one of which looked like a Derringer, the other I don't know (didn't handle them as I had no interest). He was very persistent with a price, then lowering and finally following me up an aisle sayin he would meet me outside to do the deal. I ignored him and kept going.

To this day, I suspect he may have been a BATF plant, particularly by his persistence.
 
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amd6547

New member
Perfectly legal here for two free Americans to sell their personal property to each other. Handguns have to be to a state resident.
Some of the best deals at the shows are walking the aisles, and after a few insulting lowball offers from the dealers (and their cronies walking the aisles), the owners are usually open to reasonable offers.
 
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Tony Z

New member
TXAZ-something wrong since he said he would follow me outside to do the sale, after first saying they were antique and not subject to transfer. My gut said set-up right from the start, and I would advise all to be wary of similar occurences at gun shows.
 
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wogpotter

New member
It used to be very common for BATF (no E back then) to troll gun shows in PA.
At one point some local pro gun organization was handing out day-glo (yum-yum yellow) orange cards with the question to ask shills if you were approached. It was a bit like a flip of the Miranda card. If the person was either an ATF agent, or someone the ATF had caught & was flipping to catch a bigger fish & he answered "No" it was evidence of entrapment, if he answered "YES" & you continued dealing with him you were an idiot & deserved to be caught. IIRC it was something like:
"ARE YOU NOW, OR HAVE YOU EVER BEEN IN THE EMPLOY, OR UNDER THE DIRECTION OF ANY FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL AGENCY"?

I've been approached with "An Illegal machine gun" by them. I told the agent I had to go get more cash from the ATM & informed the local LEO's of the "crook selling illegal machine guns" & sat back to watch the fun unfold.
:cool:
The BATF got all sorts of grief for doing things like that back then.
 
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johnwilliamson062

Moderator
To this day, I suspect he may have been a BATF plant, particularly by his persistence.
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In most states, Pennsylvania included, there is nothing illegal about buying the firearm outside the show. In the case of local shows in my area I believe they enforce the rule as much to stop people from not paying for a table or at least admission as any legal concern. They also ziptie any firearms at the door and they don't want NDs in the parking lot.

ARE YOU NOW, OR HAVE YOU EVER BEEN IN THE EMPLOY, OR UNDER THE DIRECTION OF ANY FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL AGENCY?
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I think you should run that by a lawyer. Although there was a lot of talk about such thing sand "Private club, no LEO permitted" signage to limit undercover work, I don;t think any courts upheld such things. Undercover officers lie regularly about being a LEO.
 
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tlm225

New member
"ARE YOU NOW, OR HAVE YOU EVER BEEN IN THE EMPLOY, OR UNDER THE DIRECTION OF ANY FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL AGENCY"?
Click to expand...

That trick doesn't work at all. Hookers and dope dealers learn that the hard way.

Many people don't have a good grasp of what entrapment actually is.

A valid entrapment defense has two related elements: (1) government inducement of the crime, and (2) the defendant's lack of predisposition to engage in the criminal conduct. Mathews v. United States, 485 U.S. 58, 63 (1988). Of the two elements, predisposition is by far the more important.

Inducement is the threshold issue in the entrapment defense. Mere solicitation to commit a crime is not inducement. Sorrells v. United States, 287 U.S. 435, 451 (1932)
 
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Tony Z

New member
May not have been legal-note that I said one of the pistols looked like a Derringer and I didn't look close enough to see what the other was. My point was that the seller said they were antiques-but that doesn't mean they were. This guy was trolling to hook someone, and I was not looking at pistols (looking for a Savage Model 24 and an Ithaca Featherweight).
 
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2ndsojourn

New member
"What would have been illegal about that transaction to motivate him?"

Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong...In PA, handgun transfers must go through a FFL. The only exemptions I'm aware of is inheritance from close family members.
 
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Sarge

New member
I only have two complaints regarding local shows. One, admission is approaching 10 bucks and if you add that to the price of an under $50 item, you paid 20% too much. The second is the proliferation of over-priced guns and accessories. It's common to see everyday guns and accessories priced 20-80 percent over market value per internet auctions. They're looking for a rube with money burning a hole in his pocket.

Of course nobody is making me go to the shows and I'm going to a lot less of them these days. I still hit a few good deals but they are increasingly rare.
 
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johnwilliamson062

Moderator
Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong...In PA, handgun transfers must go through a FFL. The only exemptions I'm aware of is inheritance from close family members.
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Is that federal law or state? ATFE doesn't enforce state law except in the case of a licensed FFL breaking state law in the course of business operations. I think.
 
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