"Race gun vs SD gun"

[L. Boscoe]

Trying to get educated. I am told the CZ 97 has a rising firing pin block and the Tanfoglio has a falling FPB (might be the reverse) and
to do away with the FPB and convert these pistols to single action
only, aka "Race Gun" makes them dangerous.
Since I only want to use them at the range, and they are NEVER
loaded except at the firing line, I don't see an issue with converting one or both to SA only.
What am I missing?

 

[RickB]

If you are using them at the range only, why bother with a SA only conversion; are you replacing internals that delete the DA function and improve the single action?
In the U.S., virtually all CZ-based competition guns retain DA function along with any improvements in SA, so what do you really get by disabling DA?

 

[Siggy-06]

You can do a SA conversion and remove the FPB if you want. A lot of people report removing the FPB reduces the reset and lightens the pull slightly. Yoy can keep the FPB and do the SA conversion. My Shadow 2 is stock DA/SA and the SA pull is still very very nice, never even gave any type of after market work a thought.

I'd say keep it DA/SA and juat add some CGW parts. You'll be surprised at how good the trigger can get.

 

[Nathan]

Converting to SAO allows you to use the SAO flat face trigger. The firing pin block is still functional unless you remove it.

To me the only issue for either is how does everybody else who buys or handles your gun know what it is?

I think CGW or even CZ Custom can help.

 

[44 AMP]

What am I missing?

What you're missing is that whomever is telling you that making it a "race gun" makes it "dangerous". That is their opinion, and not a sound one, in my opinion.

 

[L. Boscoe]

Race gun vs SD gun

Ok, to reveal all, I have two CZ 97's one a BD, the decoder version.
Both were converted to Cajun Gun Works "E" conversion, which involves removing a lot of parts from stock, fitting a new barrel bushing, and supposedly making it near perfect.
Problem is, the 97B has a very nice trigger, and the BD, not so much. I sent it back to CGW, and they said it was perfect, I was
wrong. I told them my Tanfoglo has a better stock trigger, and they dispute that, so unless I go to Louisiana with a box full of guns and have it out with them face to face (a tempting thought), I have a
"perfect" gun that does not perform to my liking. That is what prompted this post about SA etc. I can get my local gunsmith, a
master armorer to convert it to SA and see if that works. Otherwise I could sell it, but I would be honor bound to tell the buyer of the dispute, and that would not promote a sale.

 

[DT Guy]

What you're missing is that whomever is telling you that making it a "race gun" makes it "dangerous". That is their opinion, and not a sound one, in my opinion.

And it's not an unfounded opinion; even a range gun can be dropped, and removing a FPS removes a strong layer of protection against an ND should that happen.


Larry

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Ok, to reveal all, I have two CZ 97's one a BD, the decoder version.
Both were converted to Cajun Gun Works "E" conversion, which involves removing a lot of parts from stock, fitting a new barrel bushing, and supposedly making it near perfect.
Problem is, the 97B has a very nice trigger, and the BD, not so much. I sent it back to CGW, and they said it was perfect, I was
wrong. I told them my Tanfoglo has a better stock trigger, and they dispute that, so unless I go to Louisiana with a box full of guns and have it out with them face to face (a tempting thought), I have a "perfect" gun that does not perform to my liking. That is what prompted this post about SA etc. I can get my local gunsmith, a
master armorer to convert it to SA and see if that works. Otherwise I could sell it, but I would be honor bound to tell the buyer of the dispute, and that would not promote a sale.

Before you rush over to the local pistol whacker, consider (or investigate) exactly what the SA conversion entails. If I'm not mistaken, your 97BD is a traditional DA/SA mechanism, so the single action is already there. All the SA conversion does (I think) is remove whatever doohickey allows the trigger to cock the hammer for the first shot from DA -- all subsequent shots are SA anyway.

Is your complaint about the SA trigger, or the DA trigger? If it's about the single action trigger, I don't see how removing the DA doohickey can change that.

 

[L. Boscoe]

Race gun vs SD gun

My major complaint is that when all the slack is taken up, there is no wall, i.e. clear break when the hammer drops. I would not mind having no slack, like a 1911, but I can live with slack if the wall is there.
Not rushing anywhere, and my local guy is a builder who makes competition 1911's and specialized rifles, was also the state pistol champ, he charges almost $4 grand for his pistols, and the work he has done on my stuff is excellent. We do have local wackers, but he is not one of them.
I do agree the lack of fpb is reason for care, thus my statement that the gun is never loaded when not on the firing line.
thanks for the replies. I will post the final decision

 

[sevt_chevelle]

Converting a BD to SAO and removing the FPB?? Not something CGW or CZ customs would suggest.

You can get a SAO CZ by simply removing the disco. The SA trigger does nothing, it just limits the forward travel. Removing the disco and adding a SA trigger won't change the feel of the SA trigger.

If you want a more defined wall, reinstall the oem trs and try a tanfoglio sear spring.

Shadow 2s dominate at gun games, one of the most used guns, they don't have fpb.

I've got 2 CZ 97s myself, both B models, one with the E-mod, the other a SAO.

 

[Nathan]

I have played with the 75’s. I got it to have a really good sao trigger with a firing pin block. It still has slight stacking caused by the firing pin block.

After looking at a Tactical Sports model, I get why they are great race guns.

To me, drop safe is not a magic pill. I would question first if a CZ97 SAO with quality parts and fitting is drop safe enough for you. I guess that would need tested.

My 1911’s are not drop safe by feature, but this has not been a problem with my Dan Wessons or others.

 

[Nathan]

You can get a SAO CZ by simply removing the disco. The SA trigger does nothing, it just limits the forward travel. Removing the disco and adding a SA trigger won't change the feel of the SA trigger.

You are right. These things cannot be done in a vacuum. You must replace the hammer, sear and several other components. Converting to the SAO trigger allows for improvement in pull length by adjusting take up and overtravel.

 

[L. Boscoe]

Race gun vs SD gun

Ok, my guy says it only changes the trigger travel before firing, so
no real need to go to SA only, "race gun". Just have to get used to all the play in the trigger before it gets real.
I give up

 

[Hawg]

I would forget both of them and get a straight up SA.

 

[stinkeypete]

In any sport you’ll have competition specific gear.

I believe that a serious beginner will benefit from investing in high quality gear to begin with.

While an expert can overcome poor gear and place well, a beginner will not know if failures in performance are due to their correctable mistakes or the limitations of their gear.

As one approaches the top 10% of club level competition, those things that make small differences are what make the difference between 5th place and 11th place.

With pistols, you never know what you are missing until you’ve spent a season with a trigger tuned to perfection by a top level pistolsmith.

Training with a top level gun, you know every inch you missed by is an inch of flaw in your technique. So you keep working, shooting air pistol at home, .22 and your race gun. You keep up your dry firing practice. You keep doing hand exercises to improve grip strength.

At some point, you’ll know the difference between gold plating and the functional firearm that a world champion would personally own if they were not paid to shoot a sponsor’s gun.

If I knew a top pistolsmith that competed at a high level in my discipline, I would ask him what his recommendation would be if it was his gun. Then follow his words.

While I don’t race and never have, it’s seriously tough competition at the top 25%. These guys ain’t plinking. Hats off to em!

It’s specialized competition gear. The CZ trigger thing… there are two baseline triggers. Both could work. Ask your pistolsmith.

 

[wild cat mccane]

I have found most pedestrian "race" are almost 100% length of barrel or safety/ DA/SA, or # produced. Not improvements.

Almost none of those are target hit improvements.

Canik SFx is 5.25" long. Too long for some comp. Enter Canik Rival. 5". Basically the exact same gun from the Canik SFx Mete.

CZ plays this game hard. Almost zero "improvements" across models but all different set ups for silly rules.

Shotguns are the perfect example in 3gun. Shotguns are for flight and swing. Spread doesn't benefit straight on target shooting. Does 3gun use shotguns in flight or swing? Nope.

Glad people like different games, but...it's kinda like manufacturers drove what is what.

A Sig X5 and X6 kept their drop safety. It's all design. It may improve the CZ/Tang trigger feel (they are different), but it doesn't HAVE to be drop safety less. Shadow 2 CZ is really dumb in my book. No real decocker, no firing pin block

 

[L. Boscoe]

Race gun vs SD gun

Probably am my own worst enemy, have too many fine firearms
and like to shoot all of them. I really need an optic to be able to shoot at 20 yards indoors, otherwise I can see the target clearly.
I just got a Les Baer, which certainly answers all the SA questions and then some. I am having to mess with the grip as the 1911 grip has never been comfortable, so pachmayer and probably some shims on top of that for a nice fat grip, and no more griping about
gunsmiths etc.

 

[Willie Lowman]

So I have a CZ TS2. The single action only trigger in it is amazing. But it is a competition gun and it doesn't see use outside matches and practice sessions. I would never choose it for a HD/SD gun.

 

[RickB]

Does 3gun use shotguns in flight or swing? Nope.

I've shot a round of trap as a 3gun stage.
Also, poppers that fling a pigeon in the air when they fall, are not uncommon.
3gun stages for shotgun are generally unimaginative, but not always.

 

[SDDL-UP]

IN MY OPINION - firing pin blocks exist to keep the lawyers at bay and should NEVER be relied upon to replace safe gun handling practices.

If you want to remove it just understand YOU ARE TAKING RESPONSIBILITY. Don't go blaming someone else if you have an accidental discharge or something.

I have many handguns, some with and some without a FPB, even CZs. I haven't removed them from any of my guns, just because you can still work and get a good trigger out of them. It makes zero difference to me for a home defense gun, but I'm sure a lawyer would have a field day with it if you removed one and it was involved in a shooting. They would try and show you were "reckless" even though thousands of guns don't have, and have NEVER HAD a firing pin block. Just be aware of the risks and responsibilties going in.