Question about striker-fired semi-autos

[Nick_C_S]

This is a technical question. On striker-fired semi-autos, if you rack a round into the chamber, then proceed to squeeze the trigger, what are you actually doing from a mechanical standpoint?

Are you pulling back the striker to a point where it lets go (like a double-action process); or is the striker already "cocked," and you're basically just letting it go (like a single-action process)?

Does it depend on the gun? What about a Kahr CW9; and Glocks (20 & 29 specifically)?

 

[Jaywalker]

Depends upon the pistol. In the Glock, the striker is partially cocked, and the trigger pull cocks it and then releases the striker. In the Walther PPQ, among some others maybe, the striker is fully cocked and the trigger pull just releases the striker.

 

[RX-79G]

Anywhere from real DA - P99, Kahr, VP70, to partial - Glock, Steyr, to single action - XD, VP9, P7.

Whatever you can do with a hammer you can do with a striker.

 

[lee n. field]

Does it depend on the gun?

It depends on the gun.

 

[Nick_C_S]

Of course, you know where I'm going with this . . .

Carrying with a round in the chamber makes me nervy.

I carry two striker-fired semi-autos: a Kahr CW9, and a Glock 29SF.

One thing that's going on is that I'm in a situation (sparing details here) where I have to handle my carry piece a lot. I need to frequently holster and unholster it while in my car; and lock it in an under-seat container, etc. So it's these actions - not the actual carry - that makes me nervous.

The Kahr doesn't bother me so much: It has a long, heavy trigger pull - asking you "are you sure you wanna do this?" - giving plenty of warning. And, the trigger sits far enough forward where I can carefully put my index finger behind the trigger when I'm handling it.

The Glock is another matter. Its trigger has little travel. And it sits too far back to do the finger-behind-the-trigger thing while handling it.

Regardless, I always pictured in my mind the striker being cocked back like a single-action revolver - ready to go. And it's somewhat assuring to know that the pulling of the trigger is moving the striker back for release (albeit only partially in the case of the Glock).

It has been something I wanted to know for some time.

 

[LockedBreech]

I understand that nervousness, but understand that not only the Glock's partial cocking system but also full-cock systems like the Walther PPQ and Springfield XD have been tested to death. In the factory, they drop them at every conceivable angle, heat them, cool them, smash them around, and check the safeties a jillion times. They've also all been proven in the field heavily (the Glock and XD more domestically, the PPQ as the P99Q in Europe).

In other words, I totally get it, my first gun was my Beretta PX4 and guns without manual safeties - even revolvers - freaked me out for a while, but just remember to observe the cardinal 4 Rules at all times and nothing bad can happen.

 

[Nick_C_S]

Thanks for the words LockedBreech. Assuring stuff there.

guns without manual safeties - even revolvers - freaked me out for a while.

For whatever reason, carrying my revolver (Smith 686+, 3" bbl) doesn't nerve me. I guess I'm just a wheelgun guy at heart (I am). That's part of the reason for my OP. With a revolver, I can see the hammer; and the trigger is a long heavy pull. I can't see strikers - and that's the issue. It's psychological. Knowing now that they're not in an actual cocked position helps somehow.

I was picturing it like carrying a revolver with the trigger cocked - that should be enough to make anybody nervous

 

[rcp1936]

I think semi autos ought to have triggers like DA revolvers
or thumb safeties --That includes all strikers

 

[TunnelRat]

I need to frequently holster and unholster it while in my car; and lock it in an under-seat container, etc. So it's these actions - not the actual carry - that makes me nervous.

Assuming you have a holster that is rigid enough around the trigger guard and you don't have to fight to keep it open when reholstering, you should be okay. I can't emphasize this enough. Another option might be removing the pistol along with the holster if that makes you feel better.

 

[LockedBreech]

I was picturing it like carrying a revolver with the trigger cocked - that should be enough to make anybody nervous

I used to see it the exact way! I still have to fight to not see 1911s that way, even with the thumb and grip safeties.

 

[Sevens]

The Kahr doesn't bother me so much: It has a long, heavy trigger pull - asking you "are you sure you wanna do this?" - giving plenty of warning. And, the trigger sits far enough forward where I can carefully put my index finger behind the trigger when I'm handling it.

Here, we exchange ideas and opinions. It goes without saying that sometimes... you'll have yours and I'll have mine and they may not mesh.

In fact, we've gotten to know each other's "style", if you will, in the handloading area of this site. I think you & I have a lot of similarities in many of the things we do in this grand hobby/lifestyle. So all the pre-amble truly needn't be said... but even still.

I think your plan & execution of such is a bad, bad, truly bad, horrible idea.

You're placing your finger inside the trigger guard to "prevent" some such thing that simply doesn't happen. Problem is, your method is introducing a foreign item in to a place where there is no issue... and it's creating the possibility of an issue.

Triggers don't get pulled all too often by things OTHER than: fingers. You're willfully sticking your finger in there to pre-empt something that isn't a threat. The net result is that you're taking a fine design and corrupting it with your finger. And it's no stretch to imagine or suggest that it's your trigger finger that you're using.

I suggest you reconsider this method. I believe it is inherently ill-conceived. This is, of course, simply my opinion.

One way I might suggest to someone who has (rational!) fears of carrying a loaded, chambered firearm when they are new to such carry (or, in your case... simply apprehensive) is to come up with an empty, but primed case. This is something I can (easily) offer to a friend, and I know that you can easily craft one yourself.

Hey... I had been shooting, owning and loving handguns for a full twenty years before I ever got a license to carry concealed and since day one, I've been a gun handling safety nut. That first week or two with a loaded chamber was strange and uncomfortable for me, and I was 20 years in to gun handling.

You and I carry nearly the same handgun. It's an exceptional design. Heh, it's as good as design as it is train-wreck UGLY. But this is a design that works.

Please consider allowing the design to stand on it's own merit and keep objects out of the trigger guard. Especially trigger fingers.

 

[tahunua001]

it depends on the gun, some are partially cocked and others are completely cocked.

 

[RX-79G]

Strikers are not the problem. The unblocked trigger pull weight and distance are what increases or decreases the likelihood of a discharge.

 

[Pilot]

If you handle a firearm properly, and don't touch the trigger until you want to fire it, then you shouldn't be "nervy" about a striker fired handgun, or any properly maintained, and operating firearm in which you train.

Sometimes irrational fear is just that. A healthy respect is fine.

 

[Jaywalker]

It's wise to be cautious - even a revolver can be accidentally fired if something (finger, shirt, stick, etc.) is on the trigger when re-holstering.

My own routine is to know that my holstered firearm (on my hip, in the drawer, etc.) has a round in the chamber, and that if I plan to leave it unholstered, I remove the round from the chamber. Perhaps rather than unholstering, you could remove the holster along with the firearm - paddle holster, pocket holster, etc.

 

[44 AMP]

I will add to Sevens, that I think putting your finger inside the trigger guard (behind) the trigger is a poor idea. Consider this, laying your finger along side the triggerguard is a better idea, because your finger then blocks anything else from reaching the trigger.

Putting your finger behind the trigger seems like a good idea, and it does stop the trigger from being pulled, UNTIL the time when you think your finger is behind the trigger, and it really isn't. THAT is the risk you are adding.

Someone does make a "safety" for the GLock, its a plastic widget that you insert behind the trigger. Keeps the trigger from being pulled, and you simply push it out before use.

It takes all kinds, but personally, I have always wondered about the people who worry about a cocked pistol (with/without a safety) and never seem to give a moments thought about the same situation happening in millions upon millions of rifles and shotguns, daily.

I also wonder about those people who loudly proclaim how they won't have a gun with a safety. Their argument is about how they could fail to take the safety off under stress. My answer to that is simply, if that's your worry, don't put the safety ON. Outside of the cheapest pocket guns (Jennings etc.,) there are no common designs where the safety is easily bumped/slid/pushed ON or OFF. It can happen, it does happen, rarely, but so do auto accidents, and other things.

The actual amount of practice it takes varies from person to person, but every one of us has a level of practice we can reach where we do things automatically, without conscious thought. if you are going to carry a handgun, choose one style/system, and get familiar enough with it that you don't need to think about how & when to manipulate the controls.

DO you have to look and see when you put your car into gear? Do you worry that you won't be able to find the brake when you need it? Most, don't.

Do you often miss your mouth with your fork? With your hands? Almost nobody does after infancy. Why?

Because we practice these things a LOT. especially the mouth thing, we practice it several times a day, day in and day out our entire lives.

Familiarity (training, whether self taught or formal instruction) is the key.

 

[TunnelRat]

I also wonder about those people who loudly proclaim how they won't have a gun with a safety. Their argument is about how they could fail to take the safety off under stress. My answer to that is simply, if that's your worry, don't put the safety ON. Outside of the cheapest pocket guns (Jennings etc.,) there are no common designs where the safety is easily bumped/slid/pushed ON or OFF. It can happen, it does happen, rarely, but so do auto accidents, and other things.

I would never own a firearm with a safety that I'd use for self defense where I didn't practice to take that safety off. It's not impossible for the safety to get bumped on, in fact there are numerous reports on this forum of just that thing happening. You compare it to auto accidents. I agree, that's why I wear a seat belt and drive a car with air bags. I take as few chances as possible. If it has a safety, practice using it. Or be like a number of others and buy guns that don't have safeties. User preference.

 

[Nick_C_S]

Trigger Guard

Sevens, 44 AMP,

I mentioned the finger behind the trigger thing for just this purpose - to get some opinions of the practice. I value both your opinions, as you have both earned it by your countless educational and common sense posts. Not to mention criticism presented in a respectful, productive manner.

I will cease the practice.

BTW, I've been a shooter/loader for 30+ years. But have only been a CC permit holder for 8 months.

Thank you for your input.

 

[Tony615]

I carry an XD40SC and I practice drawing and I am careful not to touch the trigger or safety grip on the back of the grip. I use a crossbreed holster that covers the trigger but when I draw and put my palm on the slide above the safety grip.

 

[RX-79G]

I carry an XD40SC and I practice drawing and I am careful not to touch the trigger or safety grip on the back of the grip. I use a crossbreed holster that covers the trigger but when I draw and put my palm on the slide above the safety grip.

If I'm understanding your post, you practice drawing with your hand in the wrong place to where the gun can't be fired. Then, after drawing, you change your grip to where it can be fired.

This doesn't sound like something you should practice, unless you never think you'd want to draw the gun from its holster and then fire it.