Proper loading for a Cap n' Ball revolver?

[RevolverLover]

I've been thinking about adding a Cap n' Ball revolver to my collection. I'm still trying to decide which model and caliber to get but I think I narrowed it down to Uberti as the maker. My first question so far is what is the best and safest way to load a cap n' ball revolver? With the reseach that I have done, there appears to be two ways you can load them. My explanations below are just to give you a general idea.

The first way is to put the correct powder charge, a wad, the lead ball, use the loading lever, cap, then fire.

The second way is to put the correct powder charge, the lead ball, use the loading lever, put some lube to seal the cylinder, cap, then fire

 

[Slamfire]

I only take the Black Powder pistols occansionally to shoot, they take so long to clean up.

I tried the grease over the ball. I can tell you that it is an excellent way to keep your powder fouling moist. And I can tell you it is an excellent way to cover your glasses, your gun, and your clothing in grease. Imagine a grease bomb going off in front of you. I tried crisco, and got so much crisco in the cylinders, (it was a hot day) that I got a misfire.

Next I tried Ox-Yoke wads. The best system I have tried. I do not know what they use in those wads, but it works. I recall knocking off the barrel of my Third Model Dragoon and examing the bore. It was as clean, after 50 shots, as any smokeless pistol after 50 rounds.

I have not tried any one elses wads, or any other wad system. I hit bingo and that is good enough for me.

So for me, I dispense powder from a flask directly into the cylinders. Some will disagree about this, but no flashovers yet. I then push a wad over each powder charge. Place a bullet on top, ram it down. Then cap.

It works.

 

[mykeal]

It's really personal choice as to which method to use; you will find, probably already have found, strong proponents of both. I personally use a lubed wad and like Slamfire1 I've had good results with respect to keeping the barrel clean.

BTW, the issue of flashback into a flask is more a long rifle issue; long rifles tend to be more likely to retain hot embers longer after firing than revolvers.

 

[O.S.O.K.]

yep

I too use lubed felt wads - ox yoke, cabelas and others have all worked just fine for me.

I do start with the bore greased with TC Bore butter - and it stays pretty clean as mentioned with the lubed patches.

As to the model to start with, if you haven't decided yet, you might go with a nice Colt 1860 or the Remington 1858 model. Both are good starting revolvers. I started with an 1860 and I still really like it.

If you're inclined towards a 36 caliber the 1862 is a dandy - smaller version of the 1860 and the 1858 comes in a Navy 36 cal version too - balls are less, you use less powder and they are very fun to shoot.

 

[RevolverLover]

Thanks guys, that clears it up a bit.

As to the model to start with, if you haven't decided yet, you might go with a nice Colt 1860 or the Remington 1858 model. Both are good starting revolvers. I started with an 1860 and I still really like it.

If you're inclined towards a 36 caliber the 1862 is a dandy - smaller version of the 1860 and the 1858 comes in a Navy 36 cal version too - balls are less, you use less powder and they are very fun to shoot.

Yup, still deciding. It's very hard for me to decide which one to get first but I'm leaning more towards the Colt Walker.

 

[m-g willy]

If'n your leaning towards the Walker for your first cap and ball you better start leaning the other way
While the Walker is a big impressive gun (I have one myself) it was also one of the first revolvers.
There were alot of flaws in the Walker which were improved in later models
Afew problems I've had with mine are.
1.The barrel wedge takes alot of beating from full power loads with such a big powder charge.(creates to much end play in cylinder and gun wont fire until you either get a new wedge or peen old one to pull barrel back)
2.With any load larger than 40 gr 3ffg the loading lever will fall tying up the gun.
Colt improved the Walker after these short commings in the Dragoon models .
It took awhile though, if you look at the dragoon models you can see improvements made from the first continuing through the third and last model.
For your first cap and ball pistol I would recomend one of the UBERTI'S 1851 navy models or the 1860 army,they are the cream of the crop in colt design.
Another good revolver is the Remington army.
These guns were the best most improved revolvers made.
You'll have less trouble with the 51 ,60 Colts than with the Walker.
And proable no trouble with the Remington Army!
JUST MY OPINION (WHICH EVERYONE KNOWS IS ALWAYS RIGHT)


Willy

 

[mykeal]

Actually, m-g-willy is right on the mark.

The question of a first bp revolver is always a hot one, but you will find pretty much universal agreement (consensus?) that a Walker isn't the one you should get. Beyond that, you get a group of pistols each of which has fans and none of which stands out as "the best first": 1851 Colt Navy, 1858 Remington New Army, 1860 Colt Army, Rogers & Spencer, 1861 Colt Navy.

Notice I didn't include the Dragoons; while improved over the Walker they are still a bit of a handful. My 2nd Dragoon is probably my favorite bp revolver, but I'd suggest it makes a much better second or third bp gun rather than a first one.

 

[O.S.O.K.]

I agree

As mentioned, my first was a Pietta 1860 Army .44. Its a great design - the last of the Colt cap and ball revolver designs (design, not model) before the advent of cartridge guns.

I love my Walker and Dragoon but as mentioned, they are not good starting revolvers - for all the reason's mentioned.

I think you will be surprised at how energetic the smaller frame .44's are to shoot. They are actually more spirited than the Walker and Dragoon because the recoil to weight ratio is much larger than the big, heavy models. Same caliber and just a little less power.

Wild Bill Hickock used two 36 caiber 1851 Navy models to do all of his shooting - that's another great starting revolver.

After getting all of my .44's, I just bought a Uberti 1851 and really enjoy shooting the 36

 

[RevolverLover]

Thanks guys. I'll research the Uberti 1858 New Army, 1860 Colt Army, 1851 Colt Navy, and the 1861 Colt Navy.


What is the difference between the Uberti 1851 and 1861 Colt Navy? Do they have a brass frame?

 

[mykeal]

1851 Colt Navy vs 1861 Colt Navy

The guns are quite different in shape (the Pietta and Uberti 1851 Navy guns are the same size and shape, so these pictures provide a valid comparison of the Uberti 1851 and 1861 Navies).

The Pietta 1851 Navy is available with either a (case hardened) steel or brass frame. Uberti's 1851 Navy is made with a steel frame only. The Uberti 1861 Navy is likewise only available with a steel frame.

 

[RevolverLover]

Thanks, I've kind of narrowed it down to the Uberti 1858 New Army or the 1861 Colt Navy.

 

[marcseatac]

I have actually heard that while the Uberti 1858 is a nicer looking pistol, the Piettas are quite a bit better in terms of accuracy. My Pietta is one of my most accurate BP pistols! Using a .451 ball of course.

 

[mykeal]

I have actually heard that while the Uberti 1858 is a nicer looking pistol, the Piettas are quite a bit better in terms of accuracy.

Huh. Piettas are quite a bit more accurate than Ubertis. That's not my experience, and the first time I can recall seeing that. How much better is "quite a bit"?

 

[Steve499]

The single Pietta I own groups better than either of the two Ubertis I own. Quite a bit better, usually. I wouldn't go so far as to say that's the norm or that there's anything sub-standard about Uberti in the accuracy department. Have you seen the groups mec gets with his Uberti 1861 Navy? It came out of the box doing it, too.

Steve

 

[marcseatac]

Huh. Piettas are quite a bit more accurate than Ubertis. That's not my experience, and the first time I can recall seeing that. How much better is "quite a bit"?

I thought this was generally accepted. My Uberti Walker and Dragoon are very accurate. But just talking 1858 the Piettas, (and I've seen many posts and reviews about amazing accuracy) shooting a .451 ball can put a group of six into 3/4 of an inch. That's what mine did the first 6 rounds it ever fired at about 25 feet.

 

[45Marlin carbine]

I have a Pietta '58 Rem, try 22 grains 3F in it, 2 felt wads overpowder with
Go-Jo white hand cleaner lube for target practice. For hunting use 30 grs. and 1 wad. I shoot Lee mold conicals. Powerful.

 

[mykeal]

I've never sat down and shot all my revolvers from rest under the same conditions, so it's really hard to say anything conclusive about one brand over another. However, on balance, it SEEMS to me that my Ubertis TEND to be EASIER to shoot well, and thus accurately, than my Piettas. That's an impression, so it could very well be wrong.

I do not own a Uberti and a Pietta of the same model, so I really couldn't do a one-for-one comparison. But the fact that can't say definitively (remember, I have an IMPRESSION, not a strong opinion, suggest that there isn't a great difference between the brands in terms of inherent accuracy. That's why the characterization of "quite a bit better" surprised me.

Piettas: Remington 1858 New Navy (.36 cal), Colt 1851 Navy (.36 cal), Starr SA (.44 cal) and Colt 1860 Army (.44 cal)
Ubertis: Colt 1862 Police (.36 cal), Colt 1861 Navy (.36 cal), Colt 1848 2nd Model Dragoon, Colt 1873 Single Action Army (.44 cal)

With the Pietta 1858 Remmy getting 3/4 inch groups at 25 yards (from rest?) what would you expect the Uberti Remmy to get?

 

[marcseatac]

Yes I was using a rest the first time, but I have shot 1 inch groups offhand. I am thinking of a post I read on THR that the Uberti 1858 was unpredictable and seemed not to favor a particular ball size well. It may be very accurate also. Three or four things I have come across gave me this opinion. I would love to shoot one of the Cimmarron Uberti's just to see how well I could do. I'm (not bragging) a pretty good shot.

 

[mykeal]

Aha. Three things need to happen here:

1) I need to buy one of the Cimarron 1858 Remington New Armys, and
2) I need to look you up, shoot both brands together (you shoot mine, I'll shoot yours and then we swap), and
3) I need to buy you a malted beverage of your choice, or other fine libation as circumstances may provide.

Unfortunately a Cimarron Remmy must wait for it's place on the list to come up, after at the very least a Ruger Old Army and a Walker. And that Pedersoli double may find it's way in there too, depending on what the market does. So it may be a few years before I can make any of that happen, but at least I now have a good reason to put the Remmy on the list...

 

[marcseatac]

Thanks for the offer! I will eventually own a Uberti 1858 but it is low on my list also. I have the Pietta with the Kirst Konverter for .45 SW LC and really like the package. I bought a Uberti Richards Mason conversion 1860 with 5 1/2 barrel .45SW and it is shooting some very nice tight groups and a very handsome handgun to boot! I'm not a Uberti basher, I own three of them now!