Pressure Signs

hardworker

New member
Yeah I know not to trust primers. I've seen a bunch of flat primers on factory ammo as well as 38 reloads of mine. So far my biggest indication of the pressure has been the satisfying kaboom I hear echoing off in the distance when I touch one of these off. Maybe I'm just used to factory stuff.

As far as starting loads, every source you check is different. For 357, it is significantly different. I figured that 14 gr was a starting load.
 

SL1

New member
Unclenick,

From the pictures, I too am suspecting the cartridge cases are showing imprints of rough chamber walls. But, the pictures are not clear on that with the dirt on the cases. Another possibility is that the pictured roughness is really just powder residue from a LIGHT load. That is why I asked him to wipe off the cases and send us another picture.

The pictures also show a significant angle between the expanded part of the case and the smooth part of the case on the right. But, from the photo provided, it is hard for me to tell if that angle is due to an over-expanded case due to high pressure in a large chamber or the opposite, from a carbide sizer ring reducing the case diameter a lot near the head and a light load not expanding it very much. The shadowing makes it hard to resolve the perspective.

As for QuickLOAD pressure estimates, they are not so good for revolver rounds. Velocity and pressure are often over-predicted with measured case capacities as well as the default capacities in the program (as you already know). That is why I rely more on pressure-tested data in manuals for the revolver cartridges. But, with .357 Magnum, there is a substantial difference between old CUP data and more recent psi data. And, apparently the factory ammo is likewise not as powerful as it was a couple of decades ago (except "Buffalo Bore" and "Grizzly" ammo). So, even seeing how his guns perform with factory ammo will be somewhat ambiguous unless we know exactly what ammo.

SL1
 

hardworker

New member
Here are those two pieces cleaned up.

The factory ammo I was comparing it to was 158gr jsp federal 357
 

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SL1

New member
The roughness on the cases seems similar to what I sometimes see when cases are fired in very dirty chambers. When that happens, the small spots in the photo would be dents going into the case. But, it is also possible that what look like dents in the photo may actually be raised spots where the case metal was forced into pits in the cylinder wall. So, it would help if you told us if there are small raised spots or small dents.

What does strike me about those photos is the apparent angle in the case on the left. It appears that the case is square to the head up to the point where the roughness begins, then abruptly angles off to the right in the photo. But, the case does not seem to be over-expanded in the rough section. Comments from others?

SL1
 

wncchester

New member
"The reason sticky extraction is a revolver pressure sign is that steel is more elastic than brass. That means steel can return to shape from a larger amount of stretch than brass can. During firing, the steel chamber and brass case expand together, but if the pressure is high enough they will expand past the point the brass can fully return to shape. That makes the brass too wide to fit in the unpressurized chamber, so when the steel snaps back to size, it squeezes the brass. That squeeze is what makes extraction sticky when pressure is too high."

Nick, I copied that because it's worth restating. In nearly 50 years of reloading, reading hundreds of magazine articles and many books on reloading you have given the FIRST accurate description of what makes for sticky cases I've ever seen. And anyone looking for 'pressure signs' on primers, especially for handguns, had better be paying attention to sticking because that tells more than any other single factor I know of. Sticky says, "Heads up, you're on the ragged edge kiddo!"
 

Peter M. Eick

New member
Looking at the picture and your loads, I would have said dirty cylinder walls also. I have loaded up well past 15 grns 2400 with a 158 Jacketed with no problems in a Pre-27 and the brass just falls right out.

Clean the cylinder heavily until it gleams and then try again. My cylinders are "glossy" on the inside.
 

Clark

New member
How far down will the 357 mag published loads go?
357 mag max has gone below 38 Special:
"Speer 6" 1964 38 s&w special 160 gr. soft point 11 gr. 2400
"Speer 6" 1964 357 mag 160 gr. soft point 15 gr. 2400
Midway "Load map" 1999 357 mag Speer 160 gr. soft point 10.9 gr. 2400


What went wrong that Midway could get the max loads so far off and make
a useless load book?
They used an "Oehler System 83 and piezoelectric transducers, the latest
in industry standard equipment".
 
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