Predatory Invasive Specie Down.

[reloader28]

Brent, thats not how I had you pictured in my mind. I was thinking more like bib overalls and a beat up old felt hat. Maybe a Mason jar of moonshine in your hand. Its funny how a persons imagination can wander.



I like cats better than dogs, and we've had up to 4 house cats at once cause of the kids.

The neighbors had a bunch of cats, and you could only get up to maybe 2 or 3. They would just buy a bag of catfood and open it up on the porch once a week to feed the cats. If thats what they want to be, thats their problem and not my business.

But when their cats started coming onto our place and peeing on everything, digging in the garbage and fighting with our cats, I started dropping the hammer. Literally.

I keep a 257Rbts (we call it the Heet Seeker) at the screenless kitchen window and have the property covered for 300yds. It took me about 2 months to get the neighbors down to about their 3 friendly cats. At least I like to think they were the friendly ones. At least the neighbors could pet them.

 

[Hog Buster]

While feral cats are a problem I offer a cautionary tale about killing them.

Many years back I had moved into a newly formed subdivision. It was on the edge of a large metropolitan area. Not many houses and a perfect place for people to drop off unwanted pets, cats mostly.

The cats were everywhere. They fought and fornicated all night, every night. Tormented every dog that was in a fenced yard and were a general nuisance.

The few of us living there decided to rid ourselves of the cats and rid we did. After several months of “Cat Hunting” their decline was evident. We were happy we had achieved our goal, but worse was to follow.

Within weeks of the cats demise we began to be invaded by rats. Rattus rattus, the Roof Rat moved in and just about took over. Not only were they fighting and fornicating outside, but also in our attics, kitchens, everywhere. With poisons and traps we caught a few, but didn’t succeed in making much of a dent in the population, which was expanding rapidly. At its apex one could kill 20 or so any night in his backyard with a .22 and rat shot. The cat problem was nothing compared to the rat problem. This rat apocalypse lasted for almost 2 years and only ended when the dropped off cat population swelled to larger numbers because we had stopped killing them.

What started off as a good idea backfired on us. I always remember my Grand paw saying not too shoot all the quail out of a covey, but leave a few for seed. We had violated that tenent and had paid for it dearly. So kill cats if you must, but always leave a few for seed, just in case.

 

[hogdogs]

Hog Buster, In my area the foxes and 'yotes would love to take over on rodent control that the "field lions" now get.

Brent

 

[gearhounds]

Plus, a rat will put up a better defense than mice, birds, small snakes, etc. While the yard tigers will take rats, they will decimate everything else as well by proxy. Tough call.

It sounds like 20 rats a night is a great excuse for the boys to get together and do some late night sniping!

 

[markj]

Thanks markj,,,

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And I wasn't meaning to rag on hogdogs either,,,
Sure hope I didn't come off that way.

Nah you didnt. I like cats too but when folks drop em off here and they become a PIA, we lose quail and pheasants. The turkeys must not be a target tho.

My nephew, a Marine soon to be a civie has a taste for cat on a stick, a delicacy he picked up in Okinowa so I may fix him up some when he comes back home. He is in SD now.

 

[Hog Buster]

Hogdogs

Just the opposite problem where I’m at now. The coyotes and foxes eat my chickens, the cats just dine on the rats. Vermin control can be a balancing act.

 

[Old Grump]

One thing about living in the sticks. Hawks, Owls, Buzzards, Crows, Doves, Turkeys, Fox, Coyotes, Raccoons, Muskrat, Otter, Beaver, Possum, Rabbit, Ground Squirrels, Gray squirrels, etc. there isn't hardly any room for (Rattus norvegicus). We get a few but the last two, Big Norwegian rats, feeding on dropped bird feed had a taste for rat poison. If the predators don't get them and I don't shoot them they just die because of poor dietary choices and the poison is where the other wildlife can't get hold of it.

 

[grubbylabs]

When we live out of town we keep a few out side and feed a little so we don't have rodent problems but I shoot all the ones that don't belong at my place. We moved into town a few years back and have had to deal with neighbors that open bags of food up and dump it on the back porch. Animal control gave me a trap for a while and in one month we got rid of 18 cats.

 

[ripnbst]

In Oklahoma the Coyotes seem to keep the feral cats pretty controlled. Feral dogs is something different all together.

 

[22-rimfire]

I think that you should know the cats and dogs (pets) that visit your property. You can usually tell if they are strays.

I will say this with all seriousness... if you shot one of my pets, I would want to hurt you. Doesn't mean I would, but I would seriously consider it. Be careful what animals you choose to shoot.

 

[Art Eatman]

22-rimfire, the whole deal is cats and dogs that you DON'T know. Feral critters out on farms and ranches. Generally, this subject is not about stray cats and dogs around edge-of-town subdivisions.

 

[MLeake]

Art...

... I suspect 22-rimfire is responding to twins' post #20.

I have to admit, I had the same reaction as 22-rimfire did. Even the most responsible pet owner occasionally has one get over or under a fence, or off the leash. I used to own a Catahoula who had actually figured out how to chimney, IE he'd put his back against a tree near the fence, and walk up the fence and over the top...

We got rid of the tree when we figured out what he was doing.

Point is, if somebody had decided to shoot my dog (who was extremely friendly with people in general and kids in particular) just because he was loose, I think I'd have reacted very badly; hopefully not in a violent manner. But I rank people who abuse kids and dogs as the lowest of the low.

Luckily, on those occasions he did get out, the personalized dog tag with my phone number on it came in handy. Folks that found him figured out immediately that he was a big, friendly baby.

 

[SavageSniper]

By far the scariest moment that I have ever had when hunting game of the 4 legged kind was when I was about 16 and hunting rabbits in a very large clearcut (1000 acres + or-) when I heard dogs in the distance. At first I thought someone was hunting deer or something until over the top of the hill came a pack of "wild" dogs. They were headed straight at me. I had 2 rabbits in my vest so I guess they smelled the blood. I was armed with a single shot .22 and 2 very fast and adrenalin charged feet. I ran as fast as I could to the woodline where a friend had a permanent treestand. The dogs were right on me by then and had me treed. I killed 3 and wounded a 4th before they left. It was dusk by then and let me tell you people that was the longest 2 mile walk back to my house. I can only imagine what would happen if I was further out in the clearcut or if that treestand was not there.

 

[twins]

MLeake,
I don't set out to abuse any animals. If they're loose, and they don't threaten my kids or leave "surprises" on my property, I'm cool with it. If I talk to the owner and they continually let them "loose", then I have a problem. If people want to own pets, they need to be responsible and held accountable.

I define a feral "pet" as one that has no owner's tag and it is freely running through a neighborhood causing havoc.

 

[22-rimfire]

Twins said

Why the distinction between killing a "domesticated cat/dog" that got loose and a "feral" cat/dog? Bottom line, dogs/cats are predatory animals. Unless you're against killing all animals, all 4-legged creatures that steps on your property are fair-game IMO.

So what do you do when a pet continually prefers your yard to leave surprises? Shoot them?

Many pets do not have an "owners tag". The tag or license is not required in my state. Guess you shoot those too?

I suspect we would not get along.

 

[reloader28]

22rimfire
Around this country with all the livestock, if your pet dont stay where its supposed to on your own property, it generally never makes it home again. People here make their living with livestock and dont take kindly to "pets" wandering thru the pastures and/or chasing stock. That that will and has held up in any court. No matter if its chickens or beef.

I'm more lenient than some and will generally use a shotgun with traploads the first time. But after that, the pet gets buried. Most people around here just bury them right off the bat. However, the shotgun usually makes them decide to stay home (if they have a home to go to) even if the owner is to lazy to keep them there.

Here, if your animal is caught killing livestock and shot because of it, The pet owner not only loses his pet, but has to pay for the livestock the pet killed PLUS the offspring the livestock would have produced in 2 or 3 years. That can get very expensive.

If your so called pet is wandering around on the property that I paid many thousands of dollars for, you better believe YOU will have a problem if YOU cant keep control of him. If it has a collar and tag it makes it easier to notify the owner to come get the dead carcass off the property.

I'm not trying to be your or anyones enemy, but I'm stating a fact. Try to look at it from a livestock owners point of view. Thats where they get their paycheck for the year.

 

[Daryl]

Hog Buster,

I think it comes down to the old saying, "All things in moderation."

I won't kill a cat just to kill it, but I'll do it if it becomes a problem.

At one time, my mom had a lot of wild quail around her house. She noticed them disappearing, and didn't know why. I had my suspicions, but since her husband is a bigtime cat lover, I said nothing.

When the quail got few, my grandmother's chickens started disappearing (she lives next door to my mom); one per night, every night. I set a Havahart trap in an area most likely to get the offender, and had the culprit the next morning. Now, a few years later, the quail are back to their old numbers again.

As a note: there are still plenty of cats in her area. Many are pets that folks let roam, and some are truly feral. Most are not much of a problem, and help keep the mice, gophers, and rats down.

My MIL once had a bunch of barn cats, but the coyotes finally got them all. Now her lawn looks like it's been tilled from all the gophers digging things up. Obviously, coyotges are not as good at keeping gopher numbers in check near homes.



Daryl

 

[22-rimfire]

The pet or feral pet issue is a troubling issue for anyone that likes pets. One needs to make their decision with moderation and consideration for the feelings of others. The decisions are often final and you can't take them back.

What applies to a Montana rancher who has 1,000 acres in rural MT is different than any rules applied to wandering pets in a city or neighborhood. Both can certainly be a problem. Judgement and acting in moderation is the key.

 

[Art Eatman]

I grew up with cats and dogs as house pets. In my city years, I never gave thought to other folks' pets wandering through our yard, doing whatever they figured on doing. We took care of our pets and didn't worry about others'.

But my hostility toward strays is strictly rural, or, where I live now, almost wilderness. Whole different deal.

Back when I had a small ranch about five miles out of Austin, if I saw a dog in my pasture with a collar on, I didn't bother him. Any dog chasing a deer was a dead dog. But, normally, a single dog is not much of a problem.

We had a couple of pet house cats who mostly hung around the house and barns. But if I saw a stray cat in the pasture, I knew it was a throwaway, and if I let it live my bobwhite quail population would decline. The bobwhite belonged there; the cat did not.

There was a study done in Wisconsin, maybeso fifteen (?) years ago. A bunch of grad students in wildlife biology ran all over the state studying feral cats and their eating habits. Two conclusions: First, a feral cat would eat around 100 songbirds per year. Second, the feral cat population in the state was estimated at around a million. The math is left as an exercise for the student.

Near my wife's home in south Georgia, a neighbor regularly put food out for "her" cats. The mob number kept increasing. No squirrels, rabbits or songbirds. A neighbor complained to the animal shelter folks. They set out traps--and in a three month period captured 72 house cats in that one small area.

I guess that if there is a point to all this, it is that people are way too irresponsible about how they deal with "pets". It's all well and good to love and cherish a pet, but there is the same sort of responsibility as for a parent with a vandalizing kid.

 

[hogdogs]

If a neighbor comes to me asking about a "certain" cat, I will keep a lookout but I also tell them I don't normally make exceptions for loose cats.

First question after color and hair type is "What color collar and tag?" If a person keeps bells on there loose roaming cat, I will give the cat a few days to find way back to it's own house.

But the cats folks own are derived from a small variety of jungle cat from africa. Treat it like every other "exotic" pet and keep it indoors or leashed up!

I personally do not see anything cute about an invasive predator swiping my Florida State Bird right out of the air as it tries to defend the little offspring that fell from the nest on the first attempt at flight.

But on the other hand I have no issue with a native predator doing the same thing.

I only live on 5 acres but I want to keep the wildlife I have.

Art has seen the place and my loose yard dogs. They rarely ever make a squirrel kill but when they do, I snatch it away and feed it to the snake.

BTW, The squirrels are the grays which are also invasive specie and have really pushed our native fox squirrels right out to small little pockets of populations.

Brent