Potential new indoor range, yay! New rules, no-yay

[Prof Young]

Maybe we need a range thread . . . maybe this is it!!!

The range I shoot, Ramparts in Pochantous IL, has no rules about brass save for sweep it up when you are done. You can take it home or dump it in the brass pail. They do sort and bag some but a lot goes to the metal recycler. You don't have to buy and shoot their ammo only but you do have to buy and shoot at their targets. I think it is one of their one concessions to making some $$, and who knows what kind of weird stuff people would bring in as targets. The range time is $16 an hour. Half that for kids, military and LEO. They have a ladies night, offer classes, sell ammo, reloading supplies, freeze dried food, jewelry, wide variety of shooting supplies. You can rent guns and eyes and ears if you forget them. If you don't feel like shooting there is always a coffee pot on and a TV hanging on the wall. They have a yearly rate and a life time member rate. I'm a life time member and go about twice a week. Being an LT gets me ten percent discount on ammo and six times a year I can bring a guest who shoots for free. And they have given me some great deals on gun purchases.
Life is good.
Prof Young

 

[armoredman]

That's a whole lotta stupid going on right there. Even if they sold it as scrap metal it would bring a decent amount of money.

I have mentioned it many times, to deaf ears....

 

[Mike Irwin]

I wouldn't shoot at such a place.

I have heard of ranges that claim they own your brass once you pull the trigger, even on revolvers.

I shoot rounds like .32-20, .44 Special, .41 Magnum, and .45 Long Colt.

NFW am I going to surrender that brass.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

https://www.brownells.com/shooting-...ors/colt-45-1911-brass-catcher-prod81549.aspx

 

[Lohman446]

If you are shooting a "common" round like 9MM or .40 what is the value of fired brass anyways?

I get your concern if you are shooting some hard to find or uncommon cartridge that is a reloaders special and I would be willing to bet, for those instances, exceptions could be made. I would not want everyone on a range trying to police their own brass - it would just add one more element of chaos to things. The person who shoots something odd - don't care.

In the end the range has to be profitable to whatever level the owners have set as acceptable and they have to get there either through higher costs or cost recovery (such as recycling).

 

[Aguila Blanca]

If you are shooting a "common" round like 9MM or .40 what is the value of fired brass anyways?

The cost of off-brand 9mm at Walmart these days is around 20 cents per round (plus tax). I can reload for about half that. Ammo is a lot more expensive than that if you buy it at the range. That's the value of fired brass -- it allows you to shoot more for the same money.

 

[zeke]

Belong to an indoor range where you are allowed to retrieve your brass to rear of firing line, if you do not become a nuisance. If all the lanes are full, retrieving brass is a sfety concern. When I go there, it is not with brass I need/want to keep.

Also belong to an outdoor range, where one board member wants to make it a rule you must police your own brass. When the range is busy, this would be a safety nightmare. Especially the pistol range.

 

[In The Ten Ring]

As always, competition is the key.

Open your own indoor gun range, treat customers the way you'd like to be treated, put him out of business. Expand, repeat, franchise.

 

[johnwilliamson062]

I can reload for about half that.

If you don't value your time.

 

[Jim Watson]

If you have the choice of Reloading or picking up some paid overtime, you can afford to buy cheap ammo like 9mm.
Any other value of your time is subjective.
Reload or watch millionaire jocks throw a ball around? You choice.

 

[DaleA]

I often think of what the 'ideal' range would look like and this thread and some of the folk that contributed have given me another idea.

As goofy as it might appear I am actually warming up to the idea of having the 'butterfly net' brass catchers on each lane.

They'd be adjustable so you could raise and lower and tilt them and they'd catch some or most of your brass. Win for you as you'd get (most) of your own brass back and win for me shooting in the next lane as I wouldn't have your brass raining down on me.

Maybe even a win for the range as people like keeping their own brass and they wouldn't have to put up with folk scrambling around for their brass while others are shooting.

https://www.brownells.com/shooting-...tcher-sku749012246-42931-78427.aspx?rrec=true

 

[FrankenMauser]

If you don't value your time.

My time is extremely valuable - especially when doing something that I enjoy, like reloading.

You don't charge by the minute while sitting on the toilet, do you?
Or waiting at the drive-thru window?
Or sitting at a traffic light?

 

[Mike Irwin]

"If you don't value your time."

I've always seen this argument fronted for stuff like reloading.

It's ludicrous.

Your time only has a monetary value if you're paid for it.

Are you paid for spending time with your family?

Are you paid for petting your dog?

Shooting and reloading is, for virtually all of us, a hobby.

By definition, hobbies are consumers of money AND of time.

If you want to allocate your time in different ways, that's one thing...

 

[johnwilliamson062]

reloading is, for virtually all of us, a hobby.

Then I would expect someone to say something like "I can't have as much fun buying 9mm as I can reloading it" instead of "I'm saving money reloading."
You may not get paid, but there is some trade-off. Some people have rigid income sources that aren't flexible. For me it is very easy to switch 3 hours of reloading to three hours of working, so it is taking away from paid time.

 

[t4terrific]

The very good local gun shop, (we have one good one, one chain one and one dump), let on that they are looking at building an indoor range in town sometime soon. I thought, yay, high desert summer temps might be able to shoot in AC, yay! Then he told me that all the brass that hit the floor would belong to him, and they would clean and sell it. As a reloader I just smiled and said, "Man I would have loved to try out your new range, but not with that rule."

I guess I'll just be sweating on the outdoor in July.

Angering customers to make a few extra bucks isn’t good business.

Most customers will leave their brass behind, so the range owner will get plenty.

The rule will lose more business than al little brass will bring.

 

[JohnKSa]

Angering customers to make a few extra bucks isn’t good business.

Based on what I see at local indoor ranges, the percentage of reloaders (people picking up brass) is pretty small.

Angering a pretty small percentage of your customers might make sense if the dollar return is sufficient to make up for any loss of business.

It's probably close to a wash for someone shooting one of the really common calibers, but if someone comes in and shoots 200-250 rounds of a less common caliber, the value of the brass they leave is likely more than the range fee they paid.

Or, looking at it from another angle, if a reloader comes in and picks up a hundred cases of less common brass from other shooters in the course of their range visit, plus whatever they shot, that almost certainly cost the range more than they grossed from the reloader's range fee.

If you don't want to leave your brass, go to another range.

 

[kmw1954]

I have to cross state lines and go into Illinois for the closest indoor range to me, otherwise it's an hour+ drive depending on traffic. There are 2 ranges in that town, one a newer shop that has only been there a couple years and the other is an old range that is in a basement and has been there for decades. I do believe they are just now on their 4th owners since I've can remember.

The new range is all new "state of the art" lanes, air handlers and always busy. Another where you are not going to be able to pickup your brass very easily. Nice but I don't like that hurry up atmosphere, shoot and leave because someone else is waiting.

The old basement range is just that. OLD. It still has crank and cable target set. Easy though that one crank turn is one yard. Lighting isn't the greatest and the air system could use more filtration but I like it and have been going there since I started shooting. Besides the new owners are very friendly and they are making improvements.

Was there last week just after lunch and was the only one there for about 1.25hrs.

 

[armoredman]

If you don't value your time.

I value my hobby time. If I wasn't casting and reloading, I would be doing something also recreational, like watching Netflix, reading a book, listening to music, cleaning the garage...wait, scratch that last one.
The one thing I wouldn't be doing is driving in to work, not unless I get called in, then I'm on the clock the second I hang up the phone.

Open your own indoor gun range, treat customers the way you'd like to be treated, put him out of business. Expand, repeat, franchise.

I checked with my bank balancer- it said not likely.
I'll keep going to the outdoor range. The city maintains it, keeps it locked after hours, cleans it up and services the porta potty, and also puts money into improvements occasionally. It is also unmonitored and free.
I have a good friend who knows I love to load and shoot, and that friend likes coming out to shoot my guns, so they provide some supplies for me so they can shoot with me without inconveniencing my bank balance...or lack thereof. When that friend is feeling generous, I load a box of 9mm for the cost of the electricity to run the lead pot. But I have to have the brass to do it, and leaving it behind isn't something I like to do.
I will say I did have one unpleasant experience with brass rats coming out and snatching up my brass while I was still shooting. These are NOT reloaders, these are the people who snatch anything brass and sell it to the recyclers.

 

[Don P]

If you are shooting a "common" round like 9MM or .40 what is the value of fired brass anyways?

Don't know about 40 but 9 mm is going for .03 per round if you shop around. Not a great deal od money but add up 10-20 K of rounds shot during the year and the .03 adds up

 

[SIGSHR]

I value my time, however reloading is like cooking, baking, woodworking, home gunsmithing. You acquire skills, learn how to do it, how to set up, see what you need-and you can make things tailored to what to what you want. You find YOUR pet load-a safe one, of course. I do a small amount of woodworking, I make things that are tailored to MY specifications.
Back to the OP. Again, their range, their rules. Either don't patronize them or stick to 22LR and revolvers.