Potential new indoor range, yay! New rules, no-yay

[armoredman]

The very good local gun shop, (we have one good one, one chain one and one dump), let on that they are looking at building an indoor range in town sometime soon. I thought, yay, high desert summer temps might be able to shoot in AC, yay! Then he told me that all the brass that hit the floor would belong to him, and they would clean and sell it. As a reloader I just smiled and said, "Man I would have loved to try out your new range, but not with that rule."
I guess I'll just be sweating on the outdoor in July.

 

[SonOfScubaDiver]

Um, yeah, not a good rule. I think he will find that sorting all that brass and cleaning it will be a lot of work for not a lot of sales potential. How many of his customers are going to be reloaders in the first place, and how many will be willing to buy their own brass back from him? My guess is not very many.

The indoor range I go to has no problem whatsoever with me gathering up as much brass as I want. They don't care if it's from my guns or not. It's less for them to clean up, and even with those of us who do collect it, they still end up with buckets and buckets full of spent cases to get rid of.

 

[UncleEd]

If range is built, it won't happen.

And if it does, the occasional loss of brass
for indoor comfort in the summer is minimal.

If a good customer, probably something can
be worked out.

I suspect such a rule affects mostly .45 and
.40 (maybe) shooters.

As for a range trying to separate and clean brass,
that's mostly a fantasy. It is sold as bulk scrap.

 

[Lohman446]

Around here I do not know of an indoor range that is not a "lost brass" range. Those stalls are rented by the half hour, on busy times it is busy, and having people scurrying around trying to collect brass would be an issue.

Maybe the rule would be relaxed in off-peak times if asked nicely? Busy ranges are talking tens of thousands of rounds of brass during peak days. If they are able to fill a slot during non-peak times they might be willing to forgo a few hundred rounds of brass.

 

[44 AMP]

Then he told me that all the brass that hit the floor would belong to him,

At that point, I would have told him that rule just cost him a customer. And why. My brass doesn't become his brass just because it touches his floor, any more than my shoes become his shoes when I walk in the place, or my car become his car because I park in his lot.

At least, not until I abandon them, on his property. THEN he has a legal (and moral) claim, but not until then!

I MIGHT consider his range, and his rules, IF he deducted the value of my spent brass from the cost of the range rental.

I MIGHT consider his range, and ONLY shoot revolvers...

I absolutely would not consider his range if I am shooting one of my "wildcat" pistols were no commercially manufactured ammo is available. When I have spent some time (and time=money) trimming, forming and reaming brass to make cases, he can go pound sand if he thinks I am going to give them to him, and pay him for the privilege just because they land on his floor!

If I didn't reload, or all I shot was non-reloadable ammo, I probably wouldn't care much. He's welcome to all the rimfire cases and berdan primed cases, and even reloadable brass that I leave on his range. otherwise, its my property, and I'm not going to agree to just give it to him.

It's his place, and he can make whatever rules he wants there, I'm free to, and quite willing to go elsewhere.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I'm with others. My brass is MY brass until I give it over to someone else. I guess I'm fortunate. The indoor range where I shoot allows us to shoot our own reloads (except in their rental guns, which I don't have a problem with), and we are allowed to retrieve our brass for reloading. In reality, few of his customers other than me reload, so he's not losing any significant amount of money on the brass I take home. To the extent possible, I buy powder and primers from him, so it works out.

He sells the brass that other shooters leave, but he doesn't clean it or sort it. He has a guy who comes in once every two or three weeks and buys it by the pound. The only sorting that gets done is that there are separate pails for aluminum and steel cases (and some customers are so lazy or so stupid they can't even get that right).

 

[SIGSHR]

I have seen that at some local ranges. Either shoot 22LR, revolvers, or have a good brass catcher.

 

[fredvon4]

So don't let your brass hit HIS floor...all sorts of side of stall contraptions are possible

On the other hand I would just go have fun in the AC with my CZ75 9mm... I do not collect that cheap assed brass any way.... I shoot 300~900 rounds of 9mm per month several times a year... I reload but 9mm in bulk that MY pistol likes to too low cost for me to bother re-loading it

45 colt my other favorite has me scrambling all the time to gather MY brass..I would certainly lay down one of my old Army wool blankets in My rented stall...NONE of it would hit HIS floor....grin

 

[UncleEd]

A lot of times a range owner means it's his brass
when it comes to others shooting and leaving the
stuff on the floor and it's not for you to sweep it
up for yourself.

Too many of you fellas get too huffy over nothing
that hasn't happened, probably will not happen
and if it did happen could still be remedied.

 

[FrankenMauser]

I've dealt with two of those.
I picked up my brass, anyway. I didn't try to take more than was mine - just what belonged to me. That way, they didn't have extra 'ammunition' against me, if they got pissy about it.

And 'pissy' did happen. One of said ranges stopped my father and I in the middle of a session and told us that they would kick us out if we kept picking up our brass (coming from ammunition that we had to buy there). I politely informed the RO that I would leave as soon as I was done picking up my brass, and not come back. My father was MUCH more confrontational, but shared a similar message.
Neither of us returned.
The place went belly-up a few months later, citing lack of profitability of their range, due to declining civilian use and sudden lack of use by police departments.

 

[Jim Watson]

I pre-enrolled at a range under construction. I figured that if they wanted to make my brass a profit center, like SIGSHR said, I have .22s and revolvers. But they are actually quite reasonable as such places go; afraid of holsters but if you can keep them on the paper, they do not limit your rate of fire.

Amusing anecdote: Although one of the owners and some of the staff have military or LE experience, they were not acquainted with enthusiasts. One was watching a friend and I shooting such IDPA drills as we could get on a lane. We came off the range and he asked her "What kind of professionals ARE you?"

 

[TXAZ]

At the range, I seldom see people picking up brass, their own or others (except for the occasional kid that wants a souvenir.

 

[spacemanspiff]

I only gather up the 30'06 brass when I drag my Garand out with me.

I don't reload yet, but if and when I do start I won't need to buy brass.

 

[FITASC]

My suggestion would be to shoot revolvers during the heat of the summer and dump your empties in a bag where you're at.

Or shoot a lot of cheap steel and aluminum stuff and then let him have the fun of sorting through it all.

 

[s3779m]

My suggestion would be to shoot revolvers during the heat of the summer and dump your empties in a bag where you're at.

Or shoot a lot of cheap steel and aluminum stuff and then let him have the fun of sorting through it all.

Good answer, not sorting the brass from the steel will cut down on the bulk rate he gets from selling.

 

[johnwilliamson062]

Many firearms will eject forward. Those that do not will ounce brass around such that some always goes forward of the line. Some people are really dumb. They will chase brass across the line. In one case someone dropped live rounds forward of their position on the line and, you guessed it, crawled over to retrieve them. There is no regular ceasefire at an indoor range.
I was at an outdoor range where a guy wanted to comb the grass for his brass each cease fire delaying everyone significantly.
This rule is normal, although not regularly enforced in my area.

Don't they sell brass that is not cleaned?
There are definitely people who will buy unsorted dirty brass and sort and clean it to resell.

I doubt they want your wildcat brass too badly.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I doubt they want your wildcat brass too badly.

You mean like the ubiquitous .357 Long Colt Magnum? (.45 Colt necked down to .357)

 

[armoredman]

Ouch.
I have to say this is the first I've dealt with this, and I worked an indoor range for a little over a year about 16 years ago. We had brooms available for customers to sweep brass back that went forward of the line IF they weren't stupid about it. We also had barrels and barrels of brass,(I counted 15 55 gallon barrels in the back room at one time), that we would roll out and if a customer asked, (a paying customer), we would gladly give over some plastic bags and let them fill up with whatever brass they felt like digging out of the barrel, but it was everything at once, aluminum, steel, etc. "You pays you money, you takes you chances." if I had been a reloader back then, I would have brought a couple of barrels home with me.
The one that gets me is my work range, where we meticulously account for every single spent brass, packaged up neat and driven under armed guard to...the dump. I kid thee not. 9mm, 223 and 308. Was told if I tried to follow them I'd be fired.
The whole thing was it was a shame to hear this from the guys I like to go see - they run a great CCW class out of the store and use a local range for the firing portions. They used to use the free public range I love, but they got irked when people would slide in early and take the 80 yard line for their own fun.

 

[Cirdan]

The indoor range I belong to is owned by a reloading company, so they keep all the brass. They also sell their product at a decent price.

 

[JohnKSa]

The one that gets me is my work range, where we meticulously account for every single spent brass, packaged up neat and driven under armed guard to...the dump. I kid thee not. 9mm, 223 and 308.

That's a whole lotta stupid going on right there. Even if they sold it as scrap metal it would bring a decent amount of money.

...all the brass that hit the floor would belong to him...

Yup, that's the way it goes sometimes. Some indoor ranges figure brass sales in as part of their business model.