Potato Potahto (Again) 115 VS 147.

[MosinM38]

First, I know ask 100 people and get 100 answers And it isn't REALLY important, but I was curious.

I want each person's opinions on which NON +P load is in your opinion, better.

9MM Luger in either 115 grain, or 147 grain.

I ask because I might have found some 9MM Fiocchi 147 XTP's. I currently use 115 grain Fiocchi XTPs.

I would LIKE to have +P's, but I don't think I should shoot them in my gun, a Argentine Browning Hi-Power. I figure it's old enough, I shouldn't use the hot loads.

It's not important as I don't "Count" on it, it's a secondary stuck in a drawer alongside my bed, but I was thinking about using it someday.

I just don't know, the 147 grains aren't inflated prices, it sorta depends on if the guys first choice actually buys them or not. Just curious, as I only have about 60 rounds of 115's at the moment, and would be a decent time to switch over.

Thanks!

 

[Nnobby45]

Here's opinion number one (unless somebody beats me) out of a hundred.

Federal 9BP JHP has always had a reasonably good rep, and so has the Silvertip. Both standard pressure 115 grs.

I'd personally stay away from any 147 gr. JHP, which even in +P HP configuration produced the worst street results of any 9mm JHP.

However, new bullet technology, such as Federal HST, has made the 147 gr. JHP respectable and possibly comparable to good 115, or 124gr. JHP's.

Stay away from the XTP 147 gr. Not much of an expander.

I'm not sure I'd worry about +P DPX or HST in a BHP.

 

[mnhntr]

I am in disagreement with first poster. I prefer heavier bullets and am of the school of bigger and slower is more accurate and hits harder. I like the hornady 147gr jhp and speer gold dot 147gr offerings but too each his own i guess.

 

[liberty1]

115 or 124 for me. Personal preference no real reason.

 

[Shadi Khalil]

I like 115 +P or +P+ or 124 +P. I don't really mess with the 147 gr's. There is a ton of info out there on ballistics, read up and pick a round.

 

[ChicagoTex]

I prefer heavier bullets and am of the school of bigger and slower is more accurate and hits harder.

"Hits harder" is a debateable, but valid argument. I don't know where you get the idea that bigger and slower is "more accurate".

I myself run 124gr +P Speer Gold Dots in all my carry 9mms. I researched such things several years ago and concluded that was simply the best defensive 9mm cartridge around that was readily available in gun stores (i.e. not DoubleTap semi-custom ammunition or "LE Restricted" Winchester Ranger).
Since then, the Federal HST has arrived on the scene, and the results I've seen on those cartridges lead me to believe they are just as good, if not a tiny bit better, than Gold Dots. Nevertheless, Gold Dots are much easier to find for me, so I will stick with them.

Sorry, got on a bit of a tangent. Anyway, I chose the 124gr because it seemed the optimum compromise of weight and velocity for the 9mm platform (I likewise prefer the 155gr bullet weight for my .40s). You can probably see where this is headed: given the choice between a 115gr and a 147gr, +P or not - I'll take the 115. It is my feeling that the 147gr loading is "overweight" for the 9mm and greatly compromises the expansion properties of most hollowpoint ammunition. I realize there are both people and ballistic gelatin tests that disagree with my feelings, but they still stand - take them or leave them.

As a sidenote, I was told once that the 147gr 9mm bullet was developed for U.S. Navy Seals to be used in supressed submachineguns (as the 147gr in non +P is subsonic) - I have no idea if there's any truth to this, but if there is, note that the 147gr would have then been intended for FMJ application only.

 

[Jim March]

The Speer 124gr slug is just superb. In most loadings it should go fast enough from an Argentine HiPower to work without +P - you have enough barrel length. Some of the 147gr slugs DO work but you need +P speeds to get them to do so - I cannot possible recommend avoiding standard pressure 9mm 147 enough unless you're shooting it out of at least an 8" barrel subgun or a carbine of some sort (Marlin Camp 9?).

 

[Nnobby45]

I am in disagreement with first poster. I prefer heavier bullets and am of the school of bigger and slower is more accurate and hits harder. I like the hornady 147gr jhp and speer gold dot 147gr offerings but too each his own i guess.

I like heavy bullets in .45, but the 147 JHP subsonic doesn't have a good street reputation, so I'd never choose it. At least not until now, possibly, with the Federal HST reported to solve previous issues with it's excellent design.

Like plenty of penetration AND excellent expansion? CorBon DPX.

However, Mosin did ask for standard pressure ammo, and the Silvertip and Fed. JHP have good reputations.

Of course, I'm talking carry for SD, not target or practice ammo. The 147 gr. subsonic never did produce reliable expansion and was only adopted be LE because the FBI settled on it temporarily before settling on different ammo or caliber.

Golden Saber 124 gr. is also a decent standard pressure load, but better in +P.

 

[Tophe]

I went with the 124 gr bullets....seemed like it was right between the two, so it is the best of both worlds. I have the DT +p ammo. Shoots just as accurate as anything else out of my gun.

 

[MosinM38]

Hmmm.

Okay, thanks for everything I heard.

So probably except for the Hydra-shock, 147's are something to avoid.

I may keep an eye out for some Winchester Silver-Tips in 115.

I guess I wanted something decent for my 9mm, but standard velocity loads are a little...less than desirable

I don't know if it really matters though. I sorta consider anything that's .35 and up in diameter, and fires a 100 grain bullet at 1,000FPS will probably all work about the same, as long as it is matched with a good bullet.(Not FMJ, or a solely hunting bullet).

 

[gun nut]

In general I prefer the lighter bullets. But the 147 would work well if your considering using a suppressor.

 

[jbrown50]

It depends on which round shoots the best from your BHP. The Hornady XTPs are of an older design with an emphasis on penetration first and expansion being a possibility. Both the 115 and 147 gr. XTPs are more likely to expand out of the 5" barrel of your BHP than a shorter barreled 9mm. The 147s will penetrate deeper of course but will be less likely to expand as fully and as quickly "in a human torso" as the 115s because of their velocity.

The newer designs in 147 gr. 9mm such as the Gold Dots, Ranger T, Ranger Bonded (PDX1 to us citizens), HSTs, and Golden Sabers have been designed to expand more readily at the lower velocities while still allowing good penetration so 147 gr. 9mm is a more viable option nowadays. I carry 147 gr. Ranger Bonded PDX1s in my Kahr PM9 which has a 3" barrel. They're very accurate, shoot to POA, allow quicker followup shots and cycle through the gun with no problems.

As long as I can put multiple shots onto a target quickly accurately and reliably with a good performing round I don't worry.

 

[seanie]

I stick with 115, or occasionally go with 124 depending on if it's more readily available. I've never fired 147 or any kind of +P because my guns only rated for 124 and non +P ammo.

 

[MosinM38]

I just wasn't sure what would be best at medium velocities. I figured maybe heavy would trump the slight velocity gain.

I think I will be keeping an eye out for winchester 115 Silvertips and 147 Hydra-shoks.

ALL 9MM premium ammo is tough to come by. With the shortage, the dealers are focusing on cheap ammo and not alot of good hollowpoint stuff. What they do get is either Fiocchi XTP (rare) Hornady (Overpriced) or Speer Gold Dots (ULTRA rare).

 

[2how]

Bigger holes bleed faster, bigger bullets tend to penetrate farther. Depending on design and speed.

 

[CDW4ME]

In standard 9mm ammo I'd use either the Remington 115 JHP or the Federal 115 JHP. The Remington has a feed friendly profile which might be a factor in an older pistol.
115 gr. ammo has a higher velocity and is more likely to expand, which I would want a 9mm to do.

 

[mnhntr]

Hits harder" is a debateable, but valid argument. I don't know where you get the idea that bigger and slower is "more accurate".

I do not claim to be an expert but in my experience with almost all of the firearms I have owned the heavier bullets have always been the more accurate.
My HK USPc in 357sig shoots tight groups with Hornady 147gr xtp and I could not get a group as tight with any of the lighter loads that I tried.
This is also the case with my 686, 629, 642, 648,Ruger blackhawk 357mag, Win 94 30-30, Marlin 336 35Rem, Savage .223, Rem 700 .257 roberts, and the list goes on and on. The fact that 90% of match ammo is heavy in comparison to the calibers other offerings leads me to believe it is not only my experience but others as well.
Also heavier bullets retain energy at distance.

 

[MEATSAW]

The US Navy Seals used (80s) souped up 147 gr Hydra-Shoks in 9mm. From what I read they liked them too. A lot has changed since then, but I still think that the philosophy remains the same: shoot a heavy-for-caliber bullet with a good design and then shoot as strong a load as you can tolerate and shoot accurately.

 

[fastbolt]

Argentine Browning Hi-Power, huh?

I don't shill ammunition or make blanket recommendations of same.

If I owned an Argentine Browning Hi-Power and was considering what ammunition to use the first question I'd want answered is which of the loads(s) I was considering demonstrated consistently reliable feeding and functioning in my particular pistol.

I'd learn as much as was reasonably possible about properly maintaining my pistol. (I recently had a fellow who owned a HP ask me to help him with a problem. He was experiencing normal feeding but his slide would not lock open on an empty magazine. I checked his magazines and found that two of his 'original' magazines had the magazine springs installed backwards. Easy correction and the 'problem' was resolved.)

I'd obtain some level of affordable training in using the pistol and set up some sort of reasonably frequent practice regimen to make sure my perishable shooting skills didn't degrade.

If the pistol was intended for use as a potential defensive weapon at some point I'd go about learning the local laws, even if it meant some investment of time and money in gaining an understanding of the relevant laws and maintaining that knowledge. (Having taught teach CCW classes I've had occasion to observe that it's sometimes amazing what some folks perceive the laws to be compared to what they are according to statute and case law.)

Oh yeah, the ammunition. I'd try to pick some modern factory ammunition of hollowpoint design made by one of the respected major ammunition manufacturers which was ordinarily available in sufficient quantities that allowed me to use it in my regular practice sessions. (Yeah, I know, the recent hysteria buying situation has made this difficult for some folks.)

The "BEST load" debate using either LE/Gov or public sources and opinions might sometimes distract folks from arguably more critical issues which may be involved in the use of a firearm as a lawful defensive weapon in actual situations.

Does whatever brand of good quality defensive ammunition I choose feed & function in my pistol?

Do I know how to properly clean, examine and maintain my pistol?

Do I know how to safely manipulate it, including loading/unloading it, in a safe manner?

Do I know how to safely, properly and effectively use it?

Do I understand the laws involved in the possession, safe storage, lawfully carry (if applicable) of a firearm and the applicable use of force laws in my state/locality?

Just my thoughts ...

 

[MosinM38]

My Hi-Power feeds ANYTHING.

Just for the "Fun" of it, I even tried a bunch fo real fat-nosed (ALmost wadcutters portruding about 1/2 a normal 115 round) and tried them.

it's eaten through all the various American Eagle types, Fiocchi, and remington cheap FMJ ammo, and a buncha differant hollowpoints and reloads.

So It's about reliable with anything I'll just run 50-60 through it with what I plan on using first, but it should be good with about anything.

I got my CCW a few weeks ago and brushed up on Montana laws regarding Self-defence (When to and not to shoot,etc.).

Also, I go through about 100 rounds a month in all my guns, sometimes more. This gun in particular I've had awhile, and shot a fair bit through it, just was thinking of changing the ammo.

But thanks, they are good tips, and well worth remembering!